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???
09/28/07 16:36
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#145075 - device dependence
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Jan Waclawek said:
Andy Peters said:
What tools?
Dunno the name (I can ask) - came with the Actel kit he is using.


OK, I have no experience with Actel parts.

Andy Peters said:
I haven't seen Brand A or Brand X's tools do bad things to clocks like that, unless I've either run out of global clock buffers or I've explicitly told the tools not to route something on a clock line.

It might be related. He mentioned something about exceeded fanouts.


Sounds like his clock was on a non-global resource.

Andy Peters said:
Bad descriptions can also result in weird branches, but the tools will tell you when it tries to route a clock line on non-global resources.

This might quite well have happened too. The whole discussion started from my questions on how device-dependent an implementation of XYZ has to be in VHDL. It seems to me (and him), that unless one follows a certain methodology for a certain brand/family of FPGAs, one can run quickly into problems like these. And, the main trouble is, that he has no time nor money to take courses for that particular chip and tool (which for him was a one-time job anyway, so it simply does not pay out in no means).


A handful of resources are device- or family-dependent.

The number of global low-skew (clock) lines differs between families, but most designs use only one or two clocks, and I've never seen an instance where a signal global clock failed to route on a global resource.

Maybe he put his clock signal on a non-clock input pin? Some families require you to use special pins for clocks.

Other family-dependent resources include differential signal on pins (RTFDS), DDR, clock management (DLL/PLL) and some memories which require instantiation instead of inference. In other words, if you can write a behavioral description, from which the tools can infer the logic, even if the tools build the logic out of gates and flops rather than use a special resource, then the code is portable. If you have to pull a part out of a vendor library, it's not.

Eventually, he managed to get it working despite of the fact that it is most probably written in an incorrect way.


Either written incorrectly or not paying attention to which pins are which.

-a

List of 147 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Getting Started With FPGAs, Part II            01/01/70 00:00      
   I didn't find it too big a job ... YMMV, of course            01/01/70 00:00      
   when it doesnt work            01/01/70 00:00      
      I'd guess...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Curses            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 1 of ???            01/01/70 00:00      
      On your way ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not windows this time?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not Windows every time, anyway            01/01/70 00:00      
      re: OP Update            01/01/70 00:00      
         what might be helpful before you get too far along            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 2 of ???            01/01/70 00:00      
      re: update            01/01/70 00:00      
         The Verilog == C trap            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: The Verilog == C trap            01/01/70 00:00      
               Thinking hardware            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I read somewhere ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: Thinking Hardware            01/01/70 00:00      
               One reason why HDL isnt the same as software            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Have I got this right?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     re: Have I got this right?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        re: re: Have I got this right?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           re: OT            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Nothing\'s perfect            01/01/70 00:00      
                        The thing to watch with FPGA's            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 3 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      have you looked at the resource utilization?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Just a little bit            01/01/70 00:00      
            On a slightly different note..            01/01/70 00:00      
               the lesson ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               HDL coding to "help" the synthesizer            01/01/70 00:00      
         Please clarify            01/01/70 00:00      
            think hardware            01/01/70 00:00      
               this sounds like...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: this sounds like            01/01/70 00:00      
               Please clarify again            01/01/70 00:00      
                  for purpose of understanding ... YES            01/01/70 00:00      
                  answer            01/01/70 00:00      
      double assignment            01/01/70 00:00      
         Good catch, I think            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: Good Catch            01/01/70 00:00      
      block vs nonblocking            01/01/70 00:00      
         I have unplugged my eval board            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: Unplugged            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 4 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Another question about the counter            01/01/70 00:00      
         what's wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
            \'initial\' block            01/01/70 00:00      
               general Verilog coding advice            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Wow            01/01/70 00:00      
            Where does "reset" come from?            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Dumb Question 1 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      look at it in the other way            01/01/70 00:00      
         But isn\'t it out of spec?            01/01/70 00:00      
            If you look more closely at the spec ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         which tools?            01/01/70 00:00      
            fanout exceeded            01/01/70 00:00      
               device dependence            01/01/70 00:00      
      newer data sheet?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Metastability            01/01/70 00:00      
         ... and contact bounce            01/01/70 00:00      
            That might not be a worry ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 5 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      do you mean, adaptive threshold?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
            PicoBlaze            01/01/70 00:00      
               Andy ... about that PicoBlaze ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: about picoblaze            01/01/70 00:00      
         the boundary is quite arbitrary            01/01/70 00:00      
            Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 6 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      a better way            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 7 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      OP Update 7.01            01/01/70 00:00      
         excessive skew warning            01/01/70 00:00      
            Offensive code here            01/01/70 00:00      
               On a slightly different note            01/01/70 00:00      
                  whatizit?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  free vs paid-for ModelSim            01/01/70 00:00      
               reason for the skew warning            01/01/70 00:00      
                  error            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I\\\'m drinking from a fire hose!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     fIREHOSE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Faucet            01/01/70 00:00      
                           faucet            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Slow drip            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I have no particular interest in this - but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Famous last words...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       sure, I take your point - but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What libraries you use in VHDL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    std_logic_arith vs numeric_std            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I found the FM!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Development System Reference Guide            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Another slow drip            01/01/70 00:00      
                              doubts            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I am not surprised it doesn\'t find that            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I was surprised            01/01/70 00:00      
                              If you want to see how the logic was synthesized            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Don't cares worked for me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not quite what I meant            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Bummer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I wouldn't worry about minimizing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                              re: drip            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 re: re: drip            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       re: huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          defaults?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             re: defaults?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             ***** Interesting result! ******            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          challenge            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             unknown is not don't care            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                A noob question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   similar noob question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      re: what happens            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   You should get a latch            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   re: a noob question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Not really answered            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I'd guess...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Simulator question            01/01/70 00:00      
                              what you are seeing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Thanks, Jez            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    check the logic!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       That's good news            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          this might make the key difference            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Two flavors of \"big\"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                drop the comments :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             as has been recommended ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          My confidence in XILINX' simulator is low            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Xilinx vs. ModelSim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It's worth using ModelSim just for the features            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          behavioral is good,kind of            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             re: behavioral is good, kind of            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Double post. Oops.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 not so simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                              re: Simulator Question: ANSWER            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 re: ANSWER            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 re: ANSWER, Part II            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Long time            01/01/70 00:00      
      one more comment            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 8 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      its supposed to make things easier to debug            01/01/70 00:00      
      one way vs the other way            01/01/70 00:00      
         re: Them two ways            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 9 of ?            01/01/70 00:00      
   OP Update 10 of 10            01/01/70 00:00      

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