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???
12/20/10 08:19
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 		 #180219 - all bets are off
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Richard Erlacher said:
Once you exceed the specified extremes of the clock rate and duty cycle, all bets are off ... ALL BETS ...

Indeed - including the bet that, if it "works" (sic) today, then it will continue to work tomorrow!

When you exceed the specified operating limits - any specified operating limit - you are into the world of undefined behaviour.
That means that anything can happen: it doesn't have to be reasonable; it doesn't have to be predictable; it doesn't have to be repeatable; it doesn't have to be controllable!

You're on your own!

Exactly!



List of 103 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Migrating to AVR            01/01/70 00:00      
   8051-replacement            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yep, I agree            01/01/70 00:00      
         Toolchain            01/01/70 00:00      
            free compilers            01/01/70 00:00      
               GCC            01/01/70 00:00      
               Free ARM compilers            01/01/70 00:00      
                  "Free" vs "Free"            01/01/70 00:00      
   faster '51 derivatives in DIL/PLCC & availability            01/01/70 00:00      
      Tired of hanging around with 5 mips            01/01/70 00:00      
         Re: Tired of hanging around with 5 Mips            01/01/70 00:00      
            experiences prototyping with smd's            01/01/70 00:00      
               Prototype SMD            01/01/70 00:00      
            Nice, but where to buy and how much?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Re: where to buy and how much?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yeah, but....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                        re the XA            01/01/70 00:00      
                     How many 51' compilers make use of the 51's dual DPTR            01/01/70 00:00      
               You must live on a very interesting corner!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Ha,ha, AVR are ubiquitus            01/01/70 00:00      
                     HUH??            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I think            01/01/70 00:00      
                        'F120            01/01/70 00:00      
                           "bunchload"            01/01/70 00:00      
                              re: bunchload            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Youse guys in Old Blightly            01/01/70 00:00      
         Prototyping SMD's            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hand-made PCBs with hand-soldered SMDs            01/01/70 00:00      
            SMD's            01/01/70 00:00      
               Well, that's nice, but not necessary.            01/01/70 00:00      
            a very general - and accurate - comment ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               apprehension            01/01/70 00:00      
   nearby            01/01/70 00:00      
      'jumping' from the '51            01/01/70 00:00      
         AVR update            01/01/70 00:00      
            the chip does not crash            01/01/70 00:00      
               Lockup etc            01/01/70 00:00      
                  increase the clock until lockup            01/01/70 00:00      
                     undefined behaviour            01/01/70 00:00      
                     NO, they do not recommend it            01/01/70 00:00      
                        simultaneous posts            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Overclocking            01/01/70 00:00      
                     This is simply an error in judgment            01/01/70 00:00      
                        all bets are off            01/01/70 00:00      
                     overclocking            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Yeah, okay            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Neeed for speeed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Because of this...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Missing the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    missing the point?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Modern derivatives            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 hogwash            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I'm not sure you're on track here ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Hi Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       the problem with AVR's is that they're ATMEL only            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That's one general and one personal problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Yes, that's what it is ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Second source not so important anymore            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   It's not as convenient now as it once was            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Free tools only have investment in knowledge            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         again. Per            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         it's not just the tools            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            "Best code"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               There are too many definitions of "best"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Don't go for best            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   yes and no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Single-source chips vs single-source architecture            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 cross purposes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    DSP PROCS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       gp ahead, stay behind the curve            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Got to disagree there,...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I do not consider 'luck' a design parameter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Flying leads            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       re: DSP PROCS            01/01/70 00:00      
                           100MHz 32-bit ARM            01/01/70 00:00      
                              The Trap...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 talking out of both sides of the mouth            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 "on the DSP level"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Often hand-optimized assembler available            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Misunderstood me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Cross talk            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       What kind            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       nobody has suggested            01/01/70 00:00      
                           no, you are not            01/01/70 00:00      
                           there are '51s with MACs            01/01/70 00:00      
                              and...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 yes and            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 He wants Plastic Dips            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    very few and            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    the 33 mips DS89C450 is in DIP if you want            01/01/70 00:00      
            no such thing as "Best"            01/01/70 00:00      
               '51 weaknesses outweigh the AVR            01/01/70 00:00      
                  similiar            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Quite so            01/01/70 00:00      
                     3, 4, 5            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Horses for courses            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Have you considered using a DSP?            01/01/70 00:00      
   I'll be off too, but not to AVR            01/01/70 00:00      
      A Guess            01/01/70 00:00      
         Low volume            01/01/70 00:00      

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