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11/13/06 19:30
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#127898 - That's because you've been avoiding the subject
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I don't feel obliged to address issues not germane to the initial issue. That's a valid topic for another discussion, but I'm not sure it would be helpful to wander off into details of FPGA implementation in this context.

I don't care how someone else enters his logic. I don't care whether it's in VHDL, Verilog, Abel, Cupl, Palasm, C++, or in binary. What I suggested was that a fellow with absolutely no background in HDL, but having had SOME training, presumably in college, where they teach logic circuits now and where they use logic symbols to describe them, should use what he already knows rather than first learning how to use VHDL or Verilog.

If a guy takes an existing circuit, one with a few 74xxx components and enters it, particularly in ALTERA's Quartus software, where there's still a selection of the old war-horse components available, so he can get his "feet wet" in the programmable logic area. Now, Altera doesn't make it as easy to get from logic diagram to programmed CPLD as XILINX does, but they do make entry a bit easier by including component symbols that he's likely to encounter on the board he wants to redesign, even if it's just an exercise. CPLD's are the easier of the two programmable logic classes to use for implementing an already operating schematic consisting of 74xxx (SSI/MSI) logic. FPGA's require more operations, and produce sometimes difficult to understand (by the uninitiated) results.

Many people have the misconception that you can simply "plug in" open-core IP and start using it. It's a nice thought, but things don't work that way. It will surely be easier for the O/P to understand what's going on if he's had a bit of experience implementing popcorn logic in CPLD than wading through the additional procedures for doing so in FPGA. Aside from that, if the O/P wants to USE the logic he programs, it would be much easier for him to work with single-supply 5V0 or 3V3 CPLD's than with 1V8, 2V5, and 3V3 on the same board with his 5-volt logic. Fewer and fewer FPGA's are 5-volt tolerant, nowadays. All this is just a burden to the new user.

I say let him get his feet wet in an environment unencumbered by those issues and focused on getting something he can see working. Let him replace the already trivial logic on an MCU board with a single CPLD. As his desire to implement more complex logic grows, he can make the decision about which HDL to use. He won't be able to get far without it. All I'm advocating is to let him "start small," unencumbered by SDRAM, FLASH, VGA, PS/2, multiple power supplies, etc. He can do that stuff later, but right now it's just in the way.

RE


List of 81 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Getting Started With FPGAs            01/01/70 00:00      
   A Book            01/01/70 00:00      
   Proceed with caution!            01/01/70 00:00      
   This is quite a nice deveolpment board            01/01/70 00:00      
   I like this board            01/01/70 00:00      
      I\'ve got one of these and can\'t recommend it            01/01/70 00:00      
         What are you talking about            01/01/70 00:00      
            Let me explain ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   generaly speaking            01/01/70 00:00      
      Damn, Jez, you need a spell-checker!            01/01/70 00:00      
         HDL-based design needs TEST BENCHES            01/01/70 00:00      
            I use 'em all the time, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               If your design is so simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What\'s important is the entry effort            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I dunno where you get these ideas from Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Can you say ModelSim?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Well, the schematic needs a little work            01/01/70 00:00      
                           more work?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              a few points ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     HDL vs Schematics, take 1E6            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Thta may be great comfort to you ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Schematics? You're kidding!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              No, nor is my customer.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              both are a 'representation of Boole'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Yep, you're right...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    To Clarify            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       schematic as equivalence check            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Manual verification impossible because ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             schematic verification            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Some more clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          hanging problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             so will your post be            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    it's not fear of the unknown, but fear of its cost            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Static Timing Analysis and those "young engineers"            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It's a sign of the times, I suppose            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 And times change            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 senior?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    That's because you've been avoiding the subject            01/01/70 00:00      
            I agree entirely. test benches are a pain but            01/01/70 00:00      
   Update from the OP            01/01/70 00:00      
      It's true ... we see things differently            01/01/70 00:00      
      the first buuk for any such venture            01/01/70 00:00      
      FPGA boards and that Cypress book            01/01/70 00:00      
         This may answer your question(s)            01/01/70 00:00      
   some of the references in the fpga faq            01/01/70 00:00      
      Good attitude            01/01/70 00:00      
   Also remeber to look at webistes like www.xilinx.c            01/01/70 00:00      
   My recommendation and opinions            01/01/70 00:00      
      I would stay away from Virtex-II            01/01/70 00:00      
         If you're going to fiddle with the 805x core ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Something about life-cycles            01/01/70 00:00      
               No doubt about it.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  useful work            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Well, I beg to differ.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        salient point            01/01/70 00:00      
                           There's an area where that's not necessarily true            01/01/70 00:00      
                           FPGA Editor            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not necessarily            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's still too costly            01/01/70 00:00      
   Thanks to all            01/01/70 00:00      
   Update #2 from the OP            01/01/70 00:00      
   A testbench is...            01/01/70 00:00      
      I C            01/01/70 00:00      
         test bench            01/01/70 00:00      
            Makes sense            01/01/70 00:00      
   Yeah but...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Tristate buffer with propagation delays            01/01/70 00:00      
   Schematics vs. HDL            01/01/70 00:00      
      In a nutshell            01/01/70 00:00      
         it\'s been a while            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, but ... and there's always a but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Yep you can its called gate level design            01/01/70 00:00      
   Its really nothing to do with showing off            01/01/70 00:00      
      did you paraphrase this?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Jez, It\'s not \"sea of gates\" design, you know ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Richards, it is there philosophy            01/01/70 00:00      
         Viewlogic            01/01/70 00:00      
   it is true            01/01/70 00:00      
   Here you go Richard graphical design exploration            01/01/70 00:00      

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