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???
06/24/08 16:33
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#156163 - Nearly every package has a manual
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Andy Peters said:
Richard Erlacher said:
I wonder why this information is so obscure in the literature?

Point me to a textbook that details how one should do a multi-page hierarchical schematic. I want to know everything possible and I want it spilled out exactly why there are a dozen different schematic formats. Why can't I just draw blocks and lines and have the tools know what I meant?
Any numbskull can figure out a simple schematic if it's drawn properly. In a hierarchy, blocks on the higher levels are represented by schematic sheets on a lower level. If you know what a 74163 is, you don't need to look at its schematic. If you don't, well you'd best look. It's no different with construction drawings. If you look at one that's well prepared, it will have details where details are necessary, but you'll get the "big picture" right away and can examine details as needed. If it's badly prepared, well, all bets are off.

However, an HDL is purported to be standardized. Schematics were not. It's the same way with other drawing packages. The incompatibility of various packages is the product of software design and not of the character of schematics, or of graphic design in any other arena.


Not having a command of this information is certainly an impediment to progress ... my progress, anyway.

Well, let's see, rather than complain about HDLs versus schematics, I've been actually USING HDLs for the last 15 years of my professional life.

-a





XILINX even published a manual for ECS, but it was never in synchronization with the product they shipped. Altera's package worked as well, but their manual wasn't any better. When the manual for ISE v5 was published, they were already on ISE v7, which, BTW, didn't have a useable schematic package. Few schematic package manuals are as poor as the one XILINX provided. Not even bEagle is that lacking in critical detail.

Nearly every serious schematic capture package has a manual with a chapter on hierarchical organization of schematics.

There's nothing mysterious about schematic hierarchies. Proper drafting is the key. It's like developing legible handwriting. Most people don't develop it until well after their most important work is already written. They do eventually appreciate it, though.

The reasons there are different schematic formats is because every schematic format originated in a commercial product. There has never been a standard for schematic diagrams before the Mil-Std-whatever it is, and most folks who created software didn't like the military very much, so they avoided military standards. They did use the Mil-Std symbols for a couple of decades, though. The ANSI symbols were a flop, though TI did give 'em the benefit of the doubt and use them in their later databooks. The reason the formats were originally different is like the reason Verliog is different from VHDL. They're different products, and, of course, for commercial reasons, the vendors prefer that you not be able to use a competitor's product's output as input to theirs. They want you to be "locked in" to theirs.

With schematics, there is still no standard, and, there's seldom a way to transport a schematic from one vendor's product to another.

In general, it's pretty tricky transferring content from one graphic package to another. The EDA software vendors have taken pains to make it difficult to move from one vendor to another. I don't know whether that's by design or just the result of chaos. It does look like chaos, in either case, though.

BTW, I was using HDL's, (ABEL, PALASM, CUPL) in the mid-80's. That hasn't helped a bit with VHDL. Also, I totally fail to understand why the BUFFER mode has seemingly fallen by the wayside. It precisely corresponds with macrocells in CPLD's, in that it's a macrocell with feedback. It would make sequential logic a lot more readable in VHDL.

RE




List of 51 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
xilinx ISE 10.1 is broken            01/01/70 00:00      
   a lot of their stuff has been broken lately ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   broken!            01/01/70 00:00      
      JSM            01/01/70 00:00      
   ah ha well.....            01/01/70 00:00      
      v7 was a stab at a rewrite, as was v8            01/01/70 00:00      
         Schematic?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Once upon a time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               jesus            01/01/70 00:00      
                  it's not the technology ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     kind of            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Is the synthesis really wrong, or just the RTL?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           nope            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Anyway            01/01/70 00:00      
                        schematic versus block diagram            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I have to take exception            01/01/70 00:00      
                           gates            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not quite            01/01/70 00:00      
               wow talk about out of date....            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not so fast, there, Pilgrim ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     various ways to do that            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I'm not sure that applies ... Jez            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Can I suggest            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Thanks for the "spiritual guidance" ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 decimal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 decimal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    It's about readability            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       readability            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          also re: readability            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       re: readability            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       type conversion is a pain            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Yes it's a pain, and it's not well explained.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             bzzzzzzzzzzzt!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Its all about the doc            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   why the different types?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      This is good stuff!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         obscurity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Nearly every package has a manual            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               buffer mode ports            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  buried macrocells too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     experts            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Yes, it's about the "experts."            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   endianity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      endianity drives me to insanity ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         HDL wins            01/01/70 00:00      
                     no....            01/01/70 00:00      
                  An interesting dichotomy...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I don\'t follow ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Oy            01/01/70 00:00      
      not synthesizing correctly            01/01/70 00:00      

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