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???
02/16/12 09:54
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#186016 - Wrong conceptual level for majority of needs
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Richard Erlacher said:
True enough, but what does one learn about the basics of the 805x core from using that device?

Sorry, but I'm not understanding that question.

People don't care about the transistors inside the core. They want working programs.

And having an hw-assisted debug method is an excellent way to learn how to make that processor jump when ordered to jump. What more can you demand from debugging tools? Hw-assisted debug methods are supersets of a sw monitor. So back to you. What do they learn about the basics of the 805x with a monitor that they do not learn with "real" debugging support?

Assember is nice, but not needed to learn how to use new processors. The majority of processors are very similar so it's enough with basic knowledge of the architecture to get very very far. Normally all the way to commercially and environmentally viable, commercial-grade, products.

People do gain much more by learning the behaviour of the hw accelerations of the UART in processor A, or power save modes in procesor B, or CAN filtering in processor C. It's normally these peripherials that is the difference between a suitable processor and a bad selection. Not how well the user knows the exact clock count for the multiply instruction, or if the instruction set as both a subtract and a reverse-subtract machine instruction.

Same with knowledge if the processor have memory-mapped registers, or "real" processor registers only accessible through dedicated instructions.

List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Which modern small 8051 should I use?            01/01/70 00:00      
   addition            01/01/70 00:00      
      contradicting yourself.            01/01/70 00:00      
      Get on with SiLabs            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thanks for all of your input!            01/01/70 00:00      
            power miser            01/01/70 00:00      
               Re: Power Miser            01/01/70 00:00      
            Still Need the SiLabs Adapter            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: 8-bit 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      SiLabs is sometimes a bit slow ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: "slow"?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well ... It might have been coincidental ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   AT89S2051/4051 or ATLP2052/4052            01/01/70 00:00      
      and lose all the goodies            01/01/70 00:00      
         Onewire debug?            01/01/70 00:00      
            tradeoffs            01/01/70 00:00      
               Is a hobbyist not extremely likely to gain            01/01/70 00:00      
                  JTAG            01/01/70 00:00      
                     cost to debug            01/01/70 00:00      
                        cost of AVR debugging "dongle"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  You have to ask yourself ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Beginners have even more reason for debug cells, i.e. ICE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     WHAT, exactly, is a hobbyist likely to gain from built-in de            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I still think it 6 one way and half-a-dozen the other            01/01/70 00:00      
                           why go old fashioned            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Where you sit determines what you see.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     exactly this            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Those are all things the monitor allows            01/01/70 00:00      
                           please explain how the monitor allows ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Monitors really not good choice for new designs/developers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Describing Richards preferences            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It doesn't help with 'C' code at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maybe not using that word            01/01/70 00:00      
                     "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Productivity/quality really important for hobbyists too            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the calculation            01/01/70 00:00      
                           True cost comes in maintainance            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I totally agree, however            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ratio?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              all numbers are arbitrary            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 but it's good to be ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 neither does a SILabs toolstick            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Wrong conceptual level for majority of needs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       only somewhat true            01/01/70 00:00      
                        First, Define Icc and Code Size Targets            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's more complicated than that            01/01/70 00:00      
                           that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                              that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 which was what I posted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    ROFL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not a simple formula!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  power            01/01/70 00:00      
                     OCD != Emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               the particular hobbyist in question            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It does allow him to maintain separation from the hardware            01/01/70 00:00      

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