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???
02/16/12 04:46
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#186006 - Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Erik Malund said:
I don't find ASM as difficult to debug as HLL ...

I don't maintain that ASM coupled with ULTRAMON51 is the only or even the best way to do production work, but it's a very straightforward way to develop hobby projects, and it doesn't cost a semester's tuition.
neither does a SILabs toolstick ($12 if I recall)

True enough, but what does one learn about the basics of the 805x core from using that device?

I doubt Andy or Erik would have easily succeeded plowing up new ground with HLL if they hadn't already possessed a firm knowledge of the 805x core
the same is true for "plowing up new ground with asm"

Erik

When starting with a new MCU, that "new ground" has to be plowed up anyway, and I find ASM inherently easier, since it is bound to the core. HLL is a step or two away (depending on which HLL) and when dealing with ASM you deal only with information that you'd have to have under your belt when using 'C' or Pascal, else you'd run into various difficulties almost right away. Do the SiLabs parts all have a completely standard 805x core, including UART and parallel ports on power-up? They certainly require some additional setup if you want to use any of their "features" not that you'd have to do that.

I'm still persuaded that using a 1985 or earlier i8752 would be very easy, though those antiques are quite costly. There'd be no misgivings about whether the features are standard, though.

Hopefully the O/P has taken to reading lots of spec's, and maybe attempting to understand the instruction set and SFR/hardware interactions with it. Once he gets that into his head, he'll be on his way, regardless of which "small" chip he ends up using in his project. The old-standard 5-volt 40-pin DIL-packaged chips are still the easiest to use when learning, methinks.

RE









List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Which modern small 8051 should I use?            01/01/70 00:00      
   addition            01/01/70 00:00      
      contradicting yourself.            01/01/70 00:00      
      Get on with SiLabs            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thanks for all of your input!            01/01/70 00:00      
            power miser            01/01/70 00:00      
               Re: Power Miser            01/01/70 00:00      
            Still Need the SiLabs Adapter            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: 8-bit 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      SiLabs is sometimes a bit slow ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: "slow"?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well ... It might have been coincidental ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   AT89S2051/4051 or ATLP2052/4052            01/01/70 00:00      
      and lose all the goodies            01/01/70 00:00      
         Onewire debug?            01/01/70 00:00      
            tradeoffs            01/01/70 00:00      
               Is a hobbyist not extremely likely to gain            01/01/70 00:00      
                  JTAG            01/01/70 00:00      
                     cost to debug            01/01/70 00:00      
                        cost of AVR debugging "dongle"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  You have to ask yourself ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Beginners have even more reason for debug cells, i.e. ICE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     WHAT, exactly, is a hobbyist likely to gain from built-in de            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I still think it 6 one way and half-a-dozen the other            01/01/70 00:00      
                           why go old fashioned            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Where you sit determines what you see.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     exactly this            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Those are all things the monitor allows            01/01/70 00:00      
                           please explain how the monitor allows ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Monitors really not good choice for new designs/developers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Describing Richards preferences            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It doesn't help with 'C' code at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maybe not using that word            01/01/70 00:00      
                     "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Productivity/quality really important for hobbyists too            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the calculation            01/01/70 00:00      
                           True cost comes in maintainance            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I totally agree, however            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ratio?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              all numbers are arbitrary            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 but it's good to be ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 neither does a SILabs toolstick            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Wrong conceptual level for majority of needs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       only somewhat true            01/01/70 00:00      
                        First, Define Icc and Code Size Targets            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's more complicated than that            01/01/70 00:00      
                           that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                              that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 which was what I posted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    ROFL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not a simple formula!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  power            01/01/70 00:00      
                     OCD != Emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               the particular hobbyist in question            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It does allow him to maintain separation from the hardware            01/01/70 00:00      

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