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???
02/15/12 16:34
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#185985 - neither does a SILabs toolstick
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I don't find ASM as difficult to debug as HLL
That was one of my arguments ages ago. It takes some time to get the tricks of C debugging (beyond basic). Also, in C debugging, sometimes, when being at a loss, debugging the disassembly ("debugging beyond basic" will lead to the "aha".

and I don't find ASM as difficult to design as HLL.
what is the diufference between designing with C directives and designing with ASM MACROS? I find designing waaaaaaay easier with C than asm

However, I have doubts as to whether extensive maintenance, beyond a few minor tweaks, is often necessary
True for amall dumb apps where asm will do quite well, not true for the larger apps, I babyed a product throgh 12 instances of "feature creep"

I'm of the opinion that a newbie who wants to start with a "small" MCU has a really hard row to hoe.
first mistake, why use a small as your first?

I don't maintain that ASM coupled with ULTRAMON51 is the only or even the best way to do production work, but it's a very straightforward way to develop hobby projects, and it doesn't cost a semester's tuition.
neither does a SILabs toolstick ($12 if I recall)

I doubt Andy or Erik would have easily succeeded plowing up new ground with HLL if they hadn't already possessed a firm knowledge of the 805x core
the same is true for "plowing up new ground with asm"

Erik

List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Which modern small 8051 should I use?            01/01/70 00:00      
   addition            01/01/70 00:00      
      contradicting yourself.            01/01/70 00:00      
      Get on with SiLabs            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thanks for all of your input!            01/01/70 00:00      
            power miser            01/01/70 00:00      
               Re: Power Miser            01/01/70 00:00      
            Still Need the SiLabs Adapter            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: 8-bit 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      SiLabs is sometimes a bit slow ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: "slow"?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well ... It might have been coincidental ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   AT89S2051/4051 or ATLP2052/4052            01/01/70 00:00      
      and lose all the goodies            01/01/70 00:00      
         Onewire debug?            01/01/70 00:00      
            tradeoffs            01/01/70 00:00      
               Is a hobbyist not extremely likely to gain            01/01/70 00:00      
                  JTAG            01/01/70 00:00      
                     cost to debug            01/01/70 00:00      
                        cost of AVR debugging "dongle"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  You have to ask yourself ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Beginners have even more reason for debug cells, i.e. ICE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     WHAT, exactly, is a hobbyist likely to gain from built-in de            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I still think it 6 one way and half-a-dozen the other            01/01/70 00:00      
                           why go old fashioned            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Where you sit determines what you see.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     exactly this            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Those are all things the monitor allows            01/01/70 00:00      
                           please explain how the monitor allows ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Monitors really not good choice for new designs/developers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Describing Richards preferences            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It doesn't help with 'C' code at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maybe not using that word            01/01/70 00:00      
                     "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Productivity/quality really important for hobbyists too            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the calculation            01/01/70 00:00      
                           True cost comes in maintainance            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I totally agree, however            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ratio?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              all numbers are arbitrary            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 but it's good to be ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 neither does a SILabs toolstick            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Wrong conceptual level for majority of needs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       only somewhat true            01/01/70 00:00      
                        First, Define Icc and Code Size Targets            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's more complicated than that            01/01/70 00:00      
                           that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                              that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 which was what I posted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    ROFL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not a simple formula!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  power            01/01/70 00:00      
                     OCD != Emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               the particular hobbyist in question            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It does allow him to maintain separation from the hardware            01/01/70 00:00      

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