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???
02/14/12 16:28
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#185945 - Productivity/quality really important for hobbyists too
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Most of 8051 books don't get old. Except when they recommend tools or what chip to buy.

A very significant amount of embedded work are now done in C.

With todays product life spans, the developers times represents a very high percentage of the total costs. And the cost of processors are not a strict linear function based on amount of RAM or code space. And power consumption is more a function of processor generation than it is based on number of tranistors.

So both for hobbyists and for commercial work, C are a very much valued tool. Especially since large percentages of the business logic can be moved from one processor to another with almost zero work - it's the mapping to UART, timers etc that needs to be adjusted when moving to other manufacturer or totally different architecture.

When the last byte isn't important, most people will quickly find that only few percent of all embedded programs (or actually fractions of programs) needs to really count clock cycles. So while majority of embedded C programs don't have any assembler except for the startup file and some optimized functions in the CRTL, a much bigger percentage of applications can squeeze the required performance by having maybe 10-100 C lines converted into assembler.

The main goal is normally productivity. And correctness. Where C have advantages in front of assembler. Or where hw-assisted debugging have big advantages over monitor-based solutions. Why look at an unformatted hex dump from a monitor, when a in-circuit debugging with a debugger integrated with some debug-cells in the chip can instead show fully decoded information. Of course it's a disadvantage when the debugger needs to be matched to the hardware - but the advantage in productivity is high. And haven't Keil been working on XML-based templating for getting their debugger to present information for unknown peripherials?

List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Which modern small 8051 should I use?            01/01/70 00:00      
   addition            01/01/70 00:00      
      contradicting yourself.            01/01/70 00:00      
      Get on with SiLabs            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thanks for all of your input!            01/01/70 00:00      
            power miser            01/01/70 00:00      
               Re: Power Miser            01/01/70 00:00      
            Still Need the SiLabs Adapter            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
   RE: 8-bit 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      SiLabs is sometimes a bit slow ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: "slow"?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well ... It might have been coincidental ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   AT89S2051/4051 or ATLP2052/4052            01/01/70 00:00      
      and lose all the goodies            01/01/70 00:00      
         Onewire debug?            01/01/70 00:00      
            tradeoffs            01/01/70 00:00      
               Is a hobbyist not extremely likely to gain            01/01/70 00:00      
                  JTAG            01/01/70 00:00      
                     cost to debug            01/01/70 00:00      
                        cost of AVR debugging "dongle"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  You have to ask yourself ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Beginners have even more reason for debug cells, i.e. ICE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     WHAT, exactly, is a hobbyist likely to gain from built-in de            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I still think it 6 one way and half-a-dozen the other            01/01/70 00:00      
                           why go old fashioned            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Where you sit determines what you see.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     exactly this            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Those are all things the monitor allows            01/01/70 00:00      
                           please explain how the monitor allows ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Monitors really not good choice for new designs/developers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Describing Richards preferences            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It doesn't help with 'C' code at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maybe not using that word            01/01/70 00:00      
                     "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE: "Small" 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Productivity/quality really important for hobbyists too            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the calculation            01/01/70 00:00      
                           True cost comes in maintainance            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I totally agree, however            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ratio?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              all numbers are arbitrary            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 but it's good to be ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: A couple of things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 neither does a SILabs toolstick            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Starting out, the old-reliable antiques are very easy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Wrong conceptual level for majority of needs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       only somewhat true            01/01/70 00:00      
                        First, Define Icc and Code Size Targets            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's more complicated than that            01/01/70 00:00      
                           that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                              that is not enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 which was what I posted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    ROFL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Not a simple formula!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  power            01/01/70 00:00      
                     OCD != Emulation            01/01/70 00:00      
               the particular hobbyist in question            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It does allow him to maintain separation from the hardware            01/01/70 00:00      

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