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???
12/01/10 02:12
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#179777 - That's true, but aren't most problems quite small?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
IIRC, most of the problems with which I've had to deal were bordering on what once was called "large" but now would not be considered such.

Microprocessors and microcontrollers were devised as a substitute for large boards full of relatively simple logic elements capable of much greater speed but essential to get the job done no matter how fast. Microprocessors, when they were new, enabled the designer to do things one at a time, at moderate speed, rather than doing them concurrently with logic that was much more speed-capable than the task demanded. IIRC, a good example of this was the old "dumb terminal". I recall that the old ADM3 had a two-sided board about 16 inches deep by 14 inches wide, and packed full of logic. A 1980-vintage "dumb terminal" typically had a microprocessor, a ROM, a bit of RAM, and perhaps 25 TTL SSI/MSI components.

I'd be surprised if the logic for a current-generation "dumb" terminal, assuming that they even exist as products any longer, had more than a half-dozen components on its logic board.

If the purpose of the effort is to reduce the component count, microcontrollers rule supreme. After all, they can harbor lots of resources without increasing the cost by much.

I recently recommended a relatively expensive (about $8) MCU for a task that would have used a couple of dozen components, and therefore be considerably less flexible than it is now. It preforms several subtasks, each of which would have required a few pieces of "family logic" and analog components. As it stands, there's only one component, aside from power supply regulation and some connectors and passives.

I believe what causes most of the "jams" in which MCU application designers find themselves when they run short on resources, is that they've failed to analyze the problem to be solved. They like to design from the bottom up, rather than the top down. They say, "Oh ... I can do this like so ... and that I can manage like so ... ". That's bottom up thinking. That often ends in, "OOPS."

RE


List of 80 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Discussing ARMs on 8052.com...?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Same same...            01/01/70 00:00      
   positive            01/01/70 00:00      
   SevensAndNines...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sevens and Nines            01/01/70 00:00      
         Try the chat here then            01/01/70 00:00      
   I really want to discuss it here            01/01/70 00:00      
      for me is ok and interesting :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
         nevermind at least            01/01/70 00:00      
      OK            01/01/70 00:00      
   Scope of the forum            01/01/70 00:00      
      on other hand            01/01/70 00:00      
         I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
            Flaw in the argument            01/01/70 00:00      
               Fresh blood is needed            01/01/70 00:00      
   the closest thing to ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      But related to Keil tools            01/01/70 00:00      
         not really policed - yet...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Actually well policed and few to answer            01/01/70 00:00      
               "Policed"? [ed]            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not by Keil            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Agreed.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        what I said            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's what should happen here            01/01/70 00:00      
               Not a suitable platform            01/01/70 00:00      
   i vote aye            01/01/70 00:00      
      second the motion            01/01/70 00:00      
      a nice typo... or intention?            01/01/70 00:00      
         re: typo -- or intention?            01/01/70 00:00      
   But there's ARMs and ARMs...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Definitely too large span of ARM chips            01/01/70 00:00      
         many of the concepts in use with 8051 chips are applicable            01/01/70 00:00      
         the problem with 'embedded'            01/01/70 00:00      
            It's the small side that is i need of a forum            01/01/70 00:00      
               Architecture Agnostic            01/01/70 00:00      
      I suppose you're right ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Metric to use depends on past experiences            01/01/70 00:00      
            apply the right parametres            01/01/70 00:00      
               once again, I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                  There's lot of analysis involved - about money            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, that's all true for the PC world ... but what about us?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Feature Creep            01/01/70 00:00      
               Often easier to shrink after you have a product            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Absolutely!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Isn't that a product of poor analysis?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        If requirements are properly analysed...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        no, it is a result of 'poor' customers            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Don't (necessarily) blame the customers!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              no blame of the customer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 It's often like pulling teeth ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Consultant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Managing expectations            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You can have "the talk" ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          You are still just the machine shop with ready blue prints            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You can't engineer an enigma            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Still not admitting different development requirements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   holydays time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      See? Now here's a guy who knows how to solve the problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Still not seeing the picture            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not exactly ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I think you're confusing marketing with engineering            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      and neither have you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I just haven't worked for FOOLS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      RE: I haven't addressed your examples because            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Well, the world's going mad ... but I'm not on board            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Summing it up            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               free advice            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       too much ARM            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Pardon??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Contract            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes, it's true, but educating them should be their cost.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I have to disagree ... provisionally            01/01/70 00:00      
               I don't see that as a problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         No, they can't            01/01/70 00:00      
            That's true, but aren't most problems quite small?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Discussing Discussing ARMs on 8052.com ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, among others            01/01/70 00:00      
      Then that's a completely different question!            01/01/70 00:00      
   An observation            01/01/70 00:00      
      correction            01/01/70 00:00      

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