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???
11/30/10 23:22
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#179770 - Often easier to shrink after you have a product
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Andy said:
We see frequent posts here where people have designed themselves into a corner by choosing a chip barely sufficient for the initial requirement - they are then stuck when extra features are requested.

Quite often, it may be worth it to do the reverse.

Design with more powerful tools. Start selling. Wait until a customer walks in and asks for the cost to buy 100k units with some slight modifications.

Then use the experience from the first 10k units already shipped, and shoehorn the firmware into new hardware specifically adapted for that customer. Having already gained a lot of market experience with the relevant product, it will be way easier to recognize the cricitcal design decisions for building a cost-reduced version of the hardware. And already having code means that a lot of that code can be compiled for a new target processor just to give a hint at the required amounts of code space. Lots should already be know about the RAM needs, or computing needs. The big thing to consider is that the original, more porwerful, hardware is already out there bringing in money while the super-optimization is performed for the high-volume custom edition. So one of your own products is already trying to defend the market shares, and putting food on the table, while the new development is ongoing.

Better with a two- or threestep process, than getting into bankrupcy trying to get that initial killer product ready to sell.

And never forget the simplicity of debugging a processor that have a JTAG interface with extensive ICE capabilities and that have an extra high-speed output port for debug traces and that can perform some extra job in the background while still managing the required real-time performance.

A C/C++ program with 30% of speed/memory free for debugging is such a joy to debug compared to a processor where you are already at the limits. And reengineering in case initial pilot testing shows some conceptual problems is so much easier since there isn't a need to take a very extensively optimized algorithm and turn inside out to get a new, very extensively optimized algorithm - just to still get the code space, RAM or speed to suffice for the task at hand.

List of 80 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Discussing ARMs on 8052.com...?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Same same...            01/01/70 00:00      
   positive            01/01/70 00:00      
   SevensAndNines...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sevens and Nines            01/01/70 00:00      
         Try the chat here then            01/01/70 00:00      
   I really want to discuss it here            01/01/70 00:00      
      for me is ok and interesting :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
         nevermind at least            01/01/70 00:00      
      OK            01/01/70 00:00      
   Scope of the forum            01/01/70 00:00      
      on other hand            01/01/70 00:00      
         I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
            Flaw in the argument            01/01/70 00:00      
               Fresh blood is needed            01/01/70 00:00      
   the closest thing to ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      But related to Keil tools            01/01/70 00:00      
         not really policed - yet...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Actually well policed and few to answer            01/01/70 00:00      
               "Policed"? [ed]            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not by Keil            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Agreed.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        what I said            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's what should happen here            01/01/70 00:00      
               Not a suitable platform            01/01/70 00:00      
   i vote aye            01/01/70 00:00      
      second the motion            01/01/70 00:00      
      a nice typo... or intention?            01/01/70 00:00      
         re: typo -- or intention?            01/01/70 00:00      
   But there's ARMs and ARMs...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Definitely too large span of ARM chips            01/01/70 00:00      
         many of the concepts in use with 8051 chips are applicable            01/01/70 00:00      
         the problem with 'embedded'            01/01/70 00:00      
            It's the small side that is i need of a forum            01/01/70 00:00      
               Architecture Agnostic            01/01/70 00:00      
      I suppose you're right ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Metric to use depends on past experiences            01/01/70 00:00      
            apply the right parametres            01/01/70 00:00      
               once again, I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                  There's lot of analysis involved - about money            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, that's all true for the PC world ... but what about us?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Feature Creep            01/01/70 00:00      
               Often easier to shrink after you have a product            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Absolutely!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Isn't that a product of poor analysis?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        If requirements are properly analysed...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        no, it is a result of 'poor' customers            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Don't (necessarily) blame the customers!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              no blame of the customer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 It's often like pulling teeth ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Consultant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Managing expectations            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You can have "the talk" ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          You are still just the machine shop with ready blue prints            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You can't engineer an enigma            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Still not admitting different development requirements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   holydays time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      See? Now here's a guy who knows how to solve the problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Still not seeing the picture            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not exactly ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I think you're confusing marketing with engineering            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      and neither have you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I just haven't worked for FOOLS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      RE: I haven't addressed your examples because            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Well, the world's going mad ... but I'm not on board            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Summing it up            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               free advice            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       too much ARM            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Pardon??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Contract            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes, it's true, but educating them should be their cost.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I have to disagree ... provisionally            01/01/70 00:00      
               I don't see that as a problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         No, they can't            01/01/70 00:00      
            That's true, but aren't most problems quite small?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Discussing Discussing ARMs on 8052.com ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, among others            01/01/70 00:00      
      Then that's a completely different question!            01/01/70 00:00      
   An observation            01/01/70 00:00      
      correction            01/01/70 00:00      

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