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???
12/01/10 01:51
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#179774 - Yes, that's all true for the PC world ... but what about us?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
That's all the product of people being "smart" and using HLL's which, as you say, follow the academically imposed model and rules. Keep in mind, too, that the tools are written by people who not only never have to use them to earn their living, but who don't care whether they work properly or not, since they'll have had their payoff and now own their private island in the South Pacific.

All of what you say is true, and it, exactly, is the reason I keep harping on the notion that every embedded programmer should be expert in ASM for at least a couple of years before he's allowed to use a HLL that also exists for the PC, whether under LINUX or Windows.

All they seem to want is shortcuts, shortcuts, and more shortcuts. Writing crap in HLL is just as easy as doing it in ASM, and happens much more often.

Yes, managers are always yelling, "Ship it, ferGodssake" when they ought to be asking, "Has it passed long-term testing yet?"

When one support person tells you that something, something that every fool knows is entirely possible, is not possible, you know it's just an excuse for their product's weaknesses, and that's sufficient cause for never considering any product of theirs again.

Likewise, when a hardware vendor's support person makes totally unsupportable claims, that's reason enough never to consider their products again.

The reason "they" (whatever that means) are all oriented to money now is that so many fools buy before they look. If you look at their documentation, you can tell whether they intended to produce a solid product, or whether they wanted to build a lot of "zoom" with false advertising and subsequently sell the company to some hapless victim. A good example over the past few years has been the iPhone. I know of nobody who's been happy enough with 'em to say they met the advertising-induced expectations. Most owners thereof seem to be happy that APPLE finally got 'em to work ... sort-of. This syndrome, BTW, is not unique to the telecom industry, or to the PC industry. It seems that people with money in their pockets are just stupid until it's gone.

RE






List of 80 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Discussing ARMs on 8052.com...?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Same same...            01/01/70 00:00      
   positive            01/01/70 00:00      
   SevensAndNines...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sevens and Nines            01/01/70 00:00      
         Try the chat here then            01/01/70 00:00      
   I really want to discuss it here            01/01/70 00:00      
      for me is ok and interesting :-)            01/01/70 00:00      
         nevermind at least            01/01/70 00:00      
      OK            01/01/70 00:00      
   Scope of the forum            01/01/70 00:00      
      on other hand            01/01/70 00:00      
         I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
            Flaw in the argument            01/01/70 00:00      
               Fresh blood is needed            01/01/70 00:00      
   the closest thing to ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      But related to Keil tools            01/01/70 00:00      
         not really policed - yet...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Actually well policed and few to answer            01/01/70 00:00      
               "Policed"? [ed]            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not by Keil            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Agreed.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        what I said            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That's what should happen here            01/01/70 00:00      
               Not a suitable platform            01/01/70 00:00      
   i vote aye            01/01/70 00:00      
      second the motion            01/01/70 00:00      
      a nice typo... or intention?            01/01/70 00:00      
         re: typo -- or intention?            01/01/70 00:00      
   But there's ARMs and ARMs...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Definitely too large span of ARM chips            01/01/70 00:00      
         many of the concepts in use with 8051 chips are applicable            01/01/70 00:00      
         the problem with 'embedded'            01/01/70 00:00      
            It's the small side that is i need of a forum            01/01/70 00:00      
               Architecture Agnostic            01/01/70 00:00      
      I suppose you're right ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Metric to use depends on past experiences            01/01/70 00:00      
            apply the right parametres            01/01/70 00:00      
               once again, I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                  There's lot of analysis involved - about money            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, that's all true for the PC world ... but what about us?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Feature Creep            01/01/70 00:00      
               Often easier to shrink after you have a product            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Absolutely!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Isn't that a product of poor analysis?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        If requirements are properly analysed...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        no, it is a result of 'poor' customers            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Don't (necessarily) blame the customers!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              no blame of the customer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 It's often like pulling teeth ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Consultant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Managing expectations            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You can have "the talk" ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          You are still just the machine shop with ready blue prints            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You can't engineer an enigma            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Still not admitting different development requirements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   holydays time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      See? Now here's a guy who knows how to solve the problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Still not seeing the picture            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not exactly ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I think you're confusing marketing with engineering            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      and neither have you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I just haven't worked for FOOLS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      RE: I haven't addressed your examples because            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Well, the world's going mad ... but I'm not on board            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Summing it up            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               free advice            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       too much ARM            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Pardon??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Contract            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes, it's true, but educating them should be their cost.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I have to disagree ... provisionally            01/01/70 00:00      
               I don't see that as a problem ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         No, they can't            01/01/70 00:00      
            That's true, but aren't most problems quite small?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Discussing Discussing ARMs on 8052.com ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, among others            01/01/70 00:00      
      Then that's a completely different question!            01/01/70 00:00      
   An observation            01/01/70 00:00      
      correction            01/01/70 00:00      

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