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???
09/15/10 00:42
Modified:
  09/15/10 01:57

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Msg Score: +3
 +3 Good Answer/Helpful
#178562 - Are you sure?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Are you sure that "seeing the extra outputs" eliminated by just cutting the DC is enough of an answer?

There were a lot of ideas thrown out regarding why this may be an issue when cutting the AC power. Wouldn't it seem prudent to investigate and know exactly that was going on there? I'm sure that many readers that have been following this thread would be curious as to the root cause as well. So my take is that is premature to close this thread.

I do not know the acual nature of your current project, whether it be a hobby project, school project or actual commercial product development, but a rigorous exercising of the engineering discipline really does direct that you should investigate to root cause. Certainly there are design decisions that would have a big impact on the future nature of your effort that would be based upon data you've collected during this investigation. Even of this is a hobby/school project it may seem like now you can move on to some other part of the work but this is still the wrong approach. If your approach was to decide to simply switch the DC power to solve the current symtom it would not be good enough for a robust product design. Here are two reasons:

1) If you build a product where you just switch the DC on and off to the load the whole AC section of the power supply stays active as long as the unit is plugged into the wall power. There are getting to be more and more "green requirements" that demand that electronic devices not consume standby power as long as the device is plugged in. Your product could even be violating a legal requirement in some regions.

2) Even if you intentionally switch the DC power of the product to get the firmware to behave at power off time it is still possible to lose the AC unexpectedly. This could make the product firmware "act up" and do its strange behaviors such as were being discussed in this thread. Extend that to some product where some big dangerous machine is controlled by your MCU. If that machine had some unexpected loss of AC the repeated code could be a lot more than a just a simple UART output message that gets repeated. A machine could drop a blade repeatedly and cut off an operators arm. A earth mover machine could unexpecetelly dump its load of dirt out over the top of some workers causing them to be maimed or killed. A production like robot could unexpectedly drive ahead multiple times and crush line workers against the wall.

So do you agree with me that this story is not yet really closed and resolved???

Michael Karas


List of 81 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
strange behaviour in serial communication            01/01/70 00:00      
   Slow VCC Decay            01/01/70 00:00      
      Get rid of the crappy R/C reset circuit            01/01/70 00:00      
   try this experiment...            01/01/70 00:00      
      totally irrelevant            01/01/70 00:00      
         thanks all            01/01/70 00:00      
            if you are running 5V ....            01/01/70 00:00      
               I agree            01/01/70 00:00      
         What's irrelevant is..            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not irrelevant to evaluate before buying            01/01/70 00:00      
            if this refer to my post ....            01/01/70 00:00      
               I am glad i started such a healthy discussion :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                  not start but restrart            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Will be more threads            01/01/70 00:00      
               to Gary Peek            01/01/70 00:00      
      I doubt that will help            01/01/70 00:00      
   bad news            01/01/70 00:00      
      time to show ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Oh My Gosh            01/01/70 00:00      
            I do not know to which extent ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               A number of short forms are commonly accepted in formal text            01/01/70 00:00      
                  we are getting distracted here            01/01/70 00:00      
               What I would like to outlaw            01/01/70 00:00      
            SMS? I think not. Just in a hurry to prove...            01/01/70 00:00      
         here is the code again            01/01/70 00:00      
            that code could not possibly produce            01/01/70 00:00      
               but it is ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  here are the screenshots from hyperterminal            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Still Seems Like...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Could Also Be            01/01/70 00:00      
                     By the way...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        good advice and an addendum            01/01/70 00:00      
                           supervisor decoupling            01/01/70 00:00      
                              But things are quite slow!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 yes cutting of DC fixed the issue            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Are you sure?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Oh no it hasn't!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       ok I agree , lets discuss            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It depends on what your goals are            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          "DNA scope"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          The Thing Is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Frequent examples            01/01/70 00:00      
   Scope time!            01/01/70 00:00      
      Would this sort of thing be at all helpful?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Quite possibly            01/01/70 00:00      
            I suspect they're all AC-coupled            01/01/70 00:00      
               AC Coupled -- No Good            01/01/70 00:00      
                  More than DC power decay...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Isn't there some way of conditioning the input?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     No DC Bandwidth            01/01/70 00:00      
                        No argument there ... but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Do you really think...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Certainly, you're right ... however ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Squeezing DC through AC Channel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    and, for all practical purposes ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    How about this ... ???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Invert and add to subract the AC??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          What about using other sampling hardware?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             making a scope (sampling or not) is fairly simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                true enough ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   USB modems really nifty            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Maybe the USB 'scopes are nifty ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         USB 'scopes'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            for observing PSU behavior ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               making a scope (sampling or not) is fairly simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Well, I haven't tried it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     another approach            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Using hardware as built ... as much as possible            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           SiLabs C8051F34x            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Which MCU is used doesn't matter ... yet            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 But it does matter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    I agree, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        100MHz++ is nice but lots of areas are below 100kHz            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           While that works for some ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Different tools good at different times            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 no argument from me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    For one so insistent on answering the question as asked...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       This should have been a new thread, eh?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          Yes!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   too new, but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                For crude display ...            01/01/70 00:00      

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