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Thread Closed: Became flame-war

???
08/03/10 13:49
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 		 #177600 - it can be made to work, but it's not ideal
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Erik Malund said:
THE POINT:
It's not about learning about technologies ... it's about learning about one specific technology, namely the 805x core.
and what better way is there for that than full emulation as offered by the SILabs parts.
your 'monitor' is the equivalent of a buggy whip

The buggy whip is as good a way as any to get the horse to go.

BESIDES:
the highly non-standard SiLabs part
the SILabs derivatives (f0xx-f2xx) are 'standard' parts (a few are 'expanded'), I would not recommend the deviates (f3xx - up) as a basic '51 learning platform.

In this context, the part under discussion is the one on their 'F12x EVK, isn't it? If there's a way to make it behave exactly as a "standard" 805x, they haven't illustrated it in ASM.

The guy who knows the core can substitute nearly any other MCU he likes. The guy relying on and knowing nothing but SiLabs would have a harder time.
get your facts straight, the SILabs/other conversion is dead simple for the derivatives (see Michaels remarks of using SILabs for debugging, other brand for production) and not very complicated for the deviates.

Erik


I've not said that there's anything wrong with using the SiLabs parts. However, I do not agree that they are a good vehicle for learning to use the basic 805x core. I believe one expends too much effort tiptoeing around the "features" that the O/P isn't using. Is that a good way for the O/P to start from scratch?

The on-chip debugging is probably as useful as most debug monitors, and learning one is as much effort as learning the other. However, with all those features to trip over, I don't thing the SiLabs EVK environment is as easy to navigate as the standard 805x as presented by that old, cheap board I mentioned. It's not as inexpensive, either. That old board comes with a free small-C compiler, a version of FORTH, and, of course, the monitor. Combine that with the free Ultramon-51, which give you the resident line-by-line assembler and disassembler, it's pretty handy learning vehicle.

Yes, the on-board Monitor is a bit of a buggy-whip, but, it still makes the horse go.

RE







List of 178 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Host and Target systems            01/01/70 00:00      
   Eh??            01/01/70 00:00      
   Huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
   There's the totally free and unrestricted ASEM-51            01/01/70 00:00      
   if you are just starting ....            01/01/70 00:00      
      Look Here            01/01/70 00:00      
         There's only one catch            01/01/70 00:00      
            actually, they do.            01/01/70 00:00      
               but they deny it            01/01/70 00:00      
                  why would it be?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, they sell chips, but they're of no use without support            01/01/70 00:00      
                        the "native language of a chip"            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Assembler is *not* the native language of the chip!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  They make the silicon - not the tools            01/01/70 00:00      
            Don't see manufacturer "supporting" assembler or C            01/01/70 00:00      
               I totally agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                  while I'm inclined to agree ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Rubbish            01/01/70 00:00      
                        If only that were relevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Nonsense            01/01/70 00:00      
                              remember what the O/P wanted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 on-chip debug is superior regardless of language            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    and the one on that EVK is one of them            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       there is no 'THE" evk            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 It is not at all clear what the OP actually wanted!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Vague?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Yes - vague!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Aren't you overreaching?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Don't upgrade murky into prime            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       then answer that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It's clear that some of you guys have your heads wedged            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Too many unknowns            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                The first question was clear enough wasn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Easy answers can be so very, very wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      That's not the case here ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             throwing good money after bad            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Total Rubbish            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Let me add...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 More SiLabs Asm Support            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I second the motion            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Hopefully that will make it easier            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Cease and Desist            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       conversations with the SiLabs folks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That's what I'd expect.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             That's not what yo said            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                there's a reason            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Maybe the SiLabs guy(s) took a similar view...?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             since when is "C for a '51" not "805x code"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                'C' doesn't look like 805x code ... isn't that the point?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   the point, the definition            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The only thing the 805x core executes is binary            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         just like            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            are you saying it's not relevant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               "the bible" is as relevant as ever.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  The O/P has to start somewhere            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     not for most            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        bad assumption ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   What's so hard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      nobody said it was hard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         wrong premise            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            He specifically asked for an assembler            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               well,            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Do you want to be "second-guessed" all the time?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     what is wrong with this analogy ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        He probably knows but can't explain it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           that's why            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              don't go overboard, Erik!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 OK, I understand            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    That's not what I meant ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       no, he did not            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          I don't disagree ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             sequence            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                You're right!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              that's not what the O/P wanted, though            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 trying to get investors for a buggy-whip factory            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Isn't this about what the O/P wanted?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       you are the champ in ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I was mistaken ... it's SPI that they provided            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Who cares about the OP?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Based on the O/P's query ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You're the one reading-in requirements!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                question as asked often not really one to answer!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Why assume he's wrong?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      whay assume he is right?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                in the absence of information to the contrary            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Single-minded            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I don't know how he feels ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         WRONG!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Clearly we see things differently            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               clearly we do            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  You have, once again, missed the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     not at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        As I said, if he has half-a-brain ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           an absolute contradiction            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              A more relevant question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              "a bunch of parts in a cargo van."            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 PC hardware can be used as 8086 development board            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Old comps            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       BIOS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Time for a new thread?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       Diluted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Staggering            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Once again, you're overreaching ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Choices, choices            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   No, Never, absolutely not, nein, nichts, niemals            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I didn't bring up the antiques ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         after he has spent $$$$$            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not at all ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               what does this have to do with it????            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  That was a response to your comment            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     proving the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        not quite ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         relevant answers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Quite so, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               around            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               How do you know (I doubt it)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  If he looks at a datasheet ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     a quick look at the datasheet            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        wrong datasheet            01/01/70 00:00      
                           what better way is there            01/01/70 00:00      
                              it can be made to work, but it's not ideal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 buggy whip is as good a way as any to get the horse to go            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    maybe there's a reason for the preference            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Budget            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Totally Agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             For an experimenter ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                doing it wrong is not better than not doing it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Horsefeathers ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      to which I have always answered            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Yes, you have ... and that's good of you.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            well, he don't            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            If the guy wants (sic) to hang himself            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                .. re For an experimenter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   It's (probably) worse than that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      UV light is dangerous to the eyes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I'm not persuaded he'd do that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            you offer to help him go blind            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               This has no bearing on how YOU do things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   While you're right on several points ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      replied in other post            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It depends on his EPROM, doesn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             what about the eraser?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                If you get the original datasheet            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   divert, when you have no comeback            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The spec says ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         WOW            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Of course it makes sense ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               OH            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  He probably won't ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             oy vey            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                it's dirt-simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   that whoosing sound ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      It wasn't a challenge to my 12-year-old            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                28C16 EEPROM            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Ease of programming important when learning            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      when you start programming, you do a lot of mistakes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         EPROM can't be trusted if used out-of-spec            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   These processes can be automated            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      the ultimate digression            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         It won't hurt him to know ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 that baloney burned when you fried it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I think you've misninterpreted something            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       stop crapping            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Just a minute...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             if you go for "simulating a 8031"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Some are simpler            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
   Here we go again            01/01/70 00:00      
   Lest We Not Forget....            01/01/70 00:00      
      The basic problem            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Andy ... seems to be able to recall...            01/01/70 00:00      
            O.K. -- the O/P behaves badly            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sorry everyone            01/01/70 00:00      
      Please don't be scared to continue ask questions            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
         Starting a new thread            01/01/70 00:00      
      that's no problem            01/01/70 00:00      
   Is it Time Yet?            01/01/70 00:00      

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