??? 04/23/06 10:13 Modified: 04/23/06 10:21 Read: times |
#114780 - Maths Responding to: ???'s previous message |
Joseph Hebert said:
Ask yourself this question. Assuming that evolution occurs by random mutation and natural selection, what is the average number of years it will take for any given species to evolve from its immediate antecedant species? I'm surprised the problem is even analytical without overarching assumptions. Its even harder to see anyone here, unless we have many mathematical biologists, being able to make any real inroads to the problem. Self-organisation can be observed even in mechanical and chemical systems, in mechanical ones, down to simple statistics and in chemical ones to quantum mechanics, without invoking little organising demons or the hand of God. Certainly computer simulations (the only methods fast enough to show test it ) show that it IS possible that evolution does work over the timescales involved, it all comes down to statistics. Like the ID argument, "what use is half an eye ?" is specious. Clearly half an eye is better than no eye at all. The faintest sense of light might confer an advantage to a set of your "random mutations" that will be magnified. We get the word from the Septuagint (LXX), or Greek translation, in the second chapter wherein it says "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth ...,"(Genesis 2: 4). You can probably tell just from that short phrase that the word doesn't mean "origin," but all of the intervening time since then as well. In other words, the passage deals with how the world came to be, not just how it began.
Its very hard to believed that these words have been accurately translated and transliterated over all the generations since the creation of the myths by the people of Mesopotamia/Ur (Iraqis, funnily enough - so the Jews are actually Iraqis....Go figure. If you had quoted Genesis 1..2:3 you would be stuck with god doing the whole job in 6 days. Now you can argue that the length pf the days is not specified, except in Genesis 2:3 it says that And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. where the length of the day is essentially codified. As Jez says in his usual subtle way, 4500 million years is a long time. 4.5 Gigayears. If every year was a single second, thats 140 YEARS to accomplish something, or at least to see what happens. We have good cosmological evidence that the universe emerged in a "big bang" - what happened before that we cannot say. If you wish to invoke your God hypothesis for the instant preceding that, you can do so safe in the knowledge that you have truly entered the realms of untestable theology. Anything else is fairgame for scientific examination. |
Topic | Author | Date |
Food for thought | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
i dunno about god | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
It comes to my mind that... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
ah well | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Evolution | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Reference | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
teps | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Secular humanism | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
timescales | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Not any more | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
the New Testament and Kurasawa | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Maths | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Math | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Science versus faith | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Young Earth | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Figures are way out | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Myth and reason | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Arcana | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Kamiokande | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Kamiokande | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Get the facts | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Facts | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
More facts | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
NOT "random" | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
"Random" in context | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
evolution | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
truth by assertion | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Math and evolution | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
How God created me. | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
It's just a simulation ... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
or like i do | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Maybe he won't do it the same way | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
zero is quite far | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
The only thing MEN can do ... | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Watch the Movie Tron. | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
me and steve | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
My stands | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
4000 to 40000 religions | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
politicians | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
01/01/70 00:00 | ||
Way to find useful info | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Science of DiscWorld | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
proof | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
its called a markov chain | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
The fallacy | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
The answer is in the math | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Not strictly true | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
reliable sources | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
creation | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
OMNIpotence | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Who says ? | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Simplicity. | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Unassailable | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Almost, but not quite omnipotent. | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
omnipitant beings are meaningless | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
Works for me | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
If we think, every thin is ............ | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
lol | 01/01/70 00:00 | |
That about wraps it up for God. | 01/01/70 00:00 |