Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
04/23/06 10:13
Modified:
  04/23/06 10:21

Read: times


 
#114780 - Maths
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Joseph Hebert said:
Ask yourself this question. Assuming that evolution occurs by random mutation and natural selection, what is the average number of years it will take for any given species to evolve from its immediate antecedant species?


I'm surprised the problem is even analytical without overarching assumptions. Its even harder to see anyone here, unless we have many mathematical biologists, being able to make any real inroads to the problem.

Self-organisation can be observed even in mechanical and chemical systems, in mechanical ones, down to simple statistics and in chemical ones to quantum mechanics, without invoking little organising demons or the hand of God. Certainly computer simulations (the only methods fast enough to show test it ) show that it IS possible that evolution does work over the timescales involved, it all comes down to statistics.

Like the ID argument, "what use is half an eye ?" is specious. Clearly half an eye is better than no eye at all. The faintest sense of light might confer an advantage to a set of your "random mutations" that will be magnified.

We get the word from the Septuagint (LXX), or Greek translation, in the second chapter wherein it says "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth ...,"(Genesis 2: 4). You can probably tell just from that short phrase that the word doesn't mean "origin," but all of the intervening time since then as well. In other words, the passage deals with how the world came to be, not just how it began.


Its very hard to believed that these words have been accurately translated and transliterated over all the generations since the creation of the myths by the people of Mesopotamia/Ur (Iraqis, funnily enough - so the Jews are actually Iraqis....Go figure.

If you had quoted Genesis 1..2:3 you would be stuck with god doing the whole job in 6 days. Now you can argue that the length pf the days is not specified, except in Genesis 2:3 it says that
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because
that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
where the length of the day is essentially codified.

As Jez says in his usual subtle way, 4500 million years is a long time. 4.5 Gigayears. If every year was a single second, thats 140 YEARS to accomplish something, or at least to see what happens.

We have good cosmological evidence that the universe emerged in a "big bang" - what happened before that we cannot say. If you wish to invoke your God hypothesis for the instant preceding that, you can do so safe in the knowledge that you have truly entered the realms of untestable theology. Anything else is fairgame for scientific examination.

List of 59 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Food for thought            01/01/70 00:00      
   i dunno about god            01/01/70 00:00      
   It comes to my mind that...            01/01/70 00:00      
      ah well            01/01/70 00:00      
         Evolution            01/01/70 00:00      
            Reference            01/01/70 00:00      
   teps            01/01/70 00:00      
   Secular humanism            01/01/70 00:00      
      timescales            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not any more            01/01/70 00:00      
         the New Testament and Kurasawa            01/01/70 00:00      
      Maths            01/01/70 00:00      
         Math            01/01/70 00:00      
            Science versus faith            01/01/70 00:00      
               Young Earth            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Figures are way out            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Myth and reason            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Arcana            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Kamiokande            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Kamiokande            01/01/70 00:00      
            Get the facts            01/01/70 00:00      
               Facts            01/01/70 00:00      
                  More facts            01/01/70 00:00      
                  NOT "random"            01/01/70 00:00      
                     "Random" in context            01/01/70 00:00      
                        evolution            01/01/70 00:00      
                  truth by assertion            01/01/70 00:00      
         Math and evolution            01/01/70 00:00      
   How God created me.            01/01/70 00:00      
      It's just a simulation ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         or like i do            01/01/70 00:00      
            Maybe he won't do it the same way            01/01/70 00:00      
               zero is quite far            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The only thing MEN can do ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Watch the Movie Tron.            01/01/70 00:00      
   me and steve            01/01/70 00:00      
   My stands            01/01/70 00:00      
   4000 to 40000 religions            01/01/70 00:00      
      politicians            01/01/70 00:00      
   Google            01/01/70 00:00      
      Way to find useful info            01/01/70 00:00      
         Science of DiscWorld            01/01/70 00:00      
         proof            01/01/70 00:00      
            its called a markov chain            01/01/70 00:00      
            The fallacy            01/01/70 00:00      
            The answer is in the math            01/01/70 00:00      
               Not strictly true            01/01/70 00:00      
      reliable sources            01/01/70 00:00      
   creation            01/01/70 00:00      
      OMNIpotence            01/01/70 00:00      
         Who says ?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Simplicity.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Unassailable            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Almost, but not quite omnipotent.            01/01/70 00:00      
            omnipitant beings are meaningless            01/01/70 00:00      
               Works for me            01/01/70 00:00      
      If we think, every thin is ............            01/01/70 00:00      
   lol            01/01/70 00:00      
   That about wraps it up for God.            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List