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???
06/09/12 03:34
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#187643 - Don't get me wrong, here ...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I'm very interested in these small instruments, though I like to compare them with the old analog ones that I use most often. The triggering has been a sore point for me for a long time since TEK gave up their superiority in that realm when they compromised on their own trigger circuits in order to compete with the somewhat cheaper ones that HP used so effectively.

The definition, IIRC, of "bandwidth" is actually "-3db bandwidth", i.e. the frequency at which the signal is attenuated 3 db by the input circuitry. That, of course, is only obvious when one is working with a pure sinusoid. A square wave will be distorted because of all the higher harmonics in its rising and falling edges but it will probably be recognizable. That distortion amounts largely to apparent loss of energy in the state changes as displayed.

I'd fear that, with a nominally 5 MHz bandwidth, if the manufacturer means the same thing as I described above, a 15 MHz square wave would look a lot more like an attenuated sinusoid. It frequency might still be recognizable, but its phase would be shifted. If your goal were to determine whether there's a signal there, and, perhaps guesstimate the frequency, well, it would be adequate. If, however, you wished to determine whether data was leading or lagging the clock edge, a common thing to examine, you'd likely be misled. The phase shift that appears on a data waveform would differ somewhat from the phase shift imposed on a regularly recurring clock, and, worse yet, the phase relationship between clock and data on a signal pair that allowed the clock duty cycle to vary considerably, as with some perfectly valid synchronous comm's, well, might look quite different on the display than it looks to the logic. That would give me pause.

What I'd recommend you investigate is how it displays the relationship between two stabile synchronized pulses, e.g. SPI or I2C clock and data, with known phase difference, as their data content varies. Compare the displayed waveform on this digital 'scope with what appears on that 475. Try it with two waveforms of identical frequency but known finite phase difference. See how it varies as frequency is varied up and down. If you have two signal generators with which you can phase-lock one to the other, and set the same sweep rate on both, try letting then sweep over a few different frequency ranges and observe what the difference, if there is any, between the old analog TEK 475 and the digital one. The 475, IIRC, is capable of sensing, displaying, and triggering on 20 mV signals and displaying down to 2 mV per division. See how that compares with the digital 'scope.

This should be very revealing, and, while none of these tests will prove the digital 'scope defective in any way, it will let you know when its display is "good enough" and when you really should be using the analog instrument. That may, in fact, never be the case.

RE








List of 74 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
DSO for cheap!            01/01/70 00:00      
   very good            01/01/70 00:00      
      Limitations            01/01/70 00:00      
         test results            01/01/70 00:00      
            That's valuable information            01/01/70 00:00      
         well, the fact is ..            01/01/70 00:00      
            tektronix 475 comparison            01/01/70 00:00      
               Really? Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
               another double post ... sorry            01/01/70 00:00      
   I think ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Application dependant            01/01/70 00:00      
         Indeed            01/01/70 00:00      
            It's still too low a bandwidth, wouldn't you say?            01/01/70 00:00      
   just curious, Joe could you try            01/01/70 00:00      
      Unusual with short pulses for hobbyist projects            01/01/70 00:00      
         is the clock running?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sorry, but no I can't.            01/01/70 00:00      
      10nSec Pulse            01/01/70 00:00      
         "at random" means what exactly ?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Answers            01/01/70 00:00      
               more observations            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It may not be the sample rate ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     digital vs analog            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Don't get me wrong, here ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           poor mans's scope            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Doesn't it depend on what THEY mean by bandwidth?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 20 nsec steps            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Well, one thing at a time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Impulse Tests are better            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       more capable scope            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I must have missed a step ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             TEK475            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                here's another alternative ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   DAC and pot in parallel?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Logically, not physically            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   new theory            01/01/70 00:00      
   3MHz is rather poor Bandwidth ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      ordinary            01/01/70 00:00      
         Ther are many params needed            01/01/70 00:00      
   "only" $200 ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Low cost oscilloscopes            01/01/70 00:00      
         £291 > 2*($199)            01/01/70 00:00      
            It doesn't always work that way            01/01/70 00:00      
               Once upon a time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   SDS8202            01/01/70 00:00      
      Read all the "fine print' first ... and ask any questions            01/01/70 00:00      
         bought it            01/01/70 00:00      
            Please let us know how this works out for you            01/01/70 00:00      
               datasheet            01/01/70 00:00      
                  2mV/div - but min trig level?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Tests            01/01/70 00:00      
                        24ns            01/01/70 00:00      
                           and that's the crux            01/01/70 00:00      
                              FPGA pulse Expander (edited)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 some love the mother, some love the daughter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Here's omne fairly simple thing ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 self calibtrate?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    interesting            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          glurk            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             DCMs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Well....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I don't know where you're going with this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             xxxxx            01/01/70 00:00      
                           333ps            01/01/70 00:00      
      SDS9302            01/01/70 00:00      
         So, how are you exercising this new 'scope?            01/01/70 00:00      
            so far so good            01/01/70 00:00      
               So far so good ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  rise time            01/01/70 00:00      
                     The rise time indicates that high frequencies gets dampened            01/01/70 00:00      
                     What does "bandwidth" mean?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        good test            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Perhaps you should repeat the test ...             01/01/70 00:00      

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