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???
03/16/12 15:53
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#186734 - Well, when were those cap sizes determined?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I'm persuaded that the cap sizes popular when people were using TTL or LSTTL are considerably too large and likely to cause problems of their own when used in combination with mostly CMOS logic.

Adding more capacitance between logic power and gnd will increase the rise and fall time of Vcc with respect to Gnd, but won't help much with noise induced from the environment. Small cap's will help somewhat more but won't do the job entirely either.

I'd guess it wouldn't hurt for someone to take a close look at those cap values in the FAQ so they don't mislead newbies. I'd guess the values presented are, generally speaking, and for the technology popular today, an order of magnitude too large. Further, since people are using 0603's and 0402's, size causing increased real estate isn't that big a problem. after all, there are still smaller sizes.

There's more to dealing with supply bypass than just swamping supply input ripple. The ground bounce created by sharp edges on clocks and on signals in general contribute to overall system noise, but what's needed in this particular case is the need for mitigating externally induced noise, since it's a thoroughly "industrial" environment, with large currents moving around outside the control circuit under discussion.

Managing externally imposed noise might be as simple as using a darlington-input Vcc regulator rather than an LDO. Careful Gnd routing would also be important. The circuit in question might even need to be in a Faraday cage.

RE






List of 66 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Sine wave detection on microcontroller            01/01/70 00:00      
   Detect or measure?            01/01/70 00:00      
      not detection, measurement of sine wave signal            01/01/70 00:00      
         What are you measuring?            01/01/70 00:00      
            RMS and Average - 1st Priority            01/01/70 00:00      
               415 v            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I have to do using MCU            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Start simple            01/01/70 00:00      
                        if time is major isssue than.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                           People responding to specific questions            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Same Technique....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RMS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Sorry for my laziness            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 So what have you done?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Require more work...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Working on that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       options, options            01/01/70 00:00      
   Help me            01/01/70 00:00      
      Okay            01/01/70 00:00      
         Are many threads available            01/01/70 00:00      
      when you save a char ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why don't you specify your problem COMPLETELY?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Already specify it            01/01/70 00:00      
            there are some details?            01/01/70 00:00      
               comparisions            01/01/70 00:00      
                  How are you calculating your needed sample rate?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     start with simple one....            01/01/70 00:00      
                        You do know sin(90+angle)? Or 2-log computations?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           ADC resolution............            01/01/70 00:00      
                              impossible or wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                              double post, ignore            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Precision Rectify:            01/01/70 00:00      
                     SCR Chopped Wave            01/01/70 00:00      
                        What accuracy do you need?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           CT accuracy            01/01/70 00:00      
                              the fundamental            01/01/70 00:00      
                              50Hz            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Precision rectifier is suitable for any waveform            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 are u sure??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Depends            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    must be severely bandwidth limited            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Maybe was circuit with top-voltage capacitor            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Sorry for confusion            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          What accuracy do you need?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             360/1024            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not what he (or me) have asked            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   you are right....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Do you believe you can protect your circuit from noise?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Very Noisy environment            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      re Very Noisy environment            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Some of those rules are showing their age            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            here we go again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               think about this for a minute            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  when discussing a FAQ            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Well, when were those cap sizes determined?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Technology            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Steady state currents do not need decaps            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Often low capacitance so limited charge. But remember load.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        fixations            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Nothing. has been proven yet.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              once more for the peanut gallery            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Where you sit determines what you see ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Off-topic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       difficult when ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       Yes ... I don't know how we got here either            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          i do            01/01/70 00:00      

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