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???
12/30/10 18:11
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Msg Score: +1
 +1 Good Answer/Helpful
#180354 - To PC or not - but avoid dead ends
Responding to: ???'s previous message
If your goal is to learn programming languages, I would recommend you to do it on a PC. The debuggers (and the amount of free language implementations) are way better there.

If your goal isn't to learn programming languages, but to do "fun things" with microcontrollers, I would recommend that you take another look at C.

There is this saying "a minute to learn, a lifetime to master". The thing is that you can learn enough to start wriging C programs very quickly. The only bad thing with C is that it has few limitations. So when do do wrong, there is no padding to protect you. The compiler will accept your code, and when you say "jump", the microcontroller will jump even if there is no where to land.

But that isn't really a big problem. If coding incrementally, adding a few lines at a time, you will see that good code gives good results. And there are lots of forums (including this one) where you can get help if you get stuck.

You think you want to test a little bit of everyting. But let's switch to something else. Would you try to be a carpenter and try getting something done with a pen knife, if you also have better tools available? If you try use C, you will find thousands and thousands of code fragments you can read and learn from. And you will find thousands of developers who can help you if stuck.

Nothing wrong with using Pascal - if that is a program language you know well and loves. But it isn't a preferred language to use if you want mainstream help from others. And Forth is an interesting language that was much used once, when microcontrollers didn't had any available compilers - or when the compilers were much too expensive for any hobbyist. But you are living in a different time, and with your access to Internet your options are completely different.

Use BASIC if you like. But if you want to try someting else, do select C. And if you want to learn more - try your hands at assembler. Just remember that the need to be able to code in assembler have greatly diminished with time because of constant improvements to microprocessors. Lots of developers do manage well with just being able to read and understand assembler (which means that they can look at the translation from C to assembler and understand what the compiler actually did). And before someone quickly jumps in with arguments that assembly knowledge is vital - remember that there is a huge difference between a hobbyist and someone working full time as developer. Professional developers shouldn't push their metrics onto hobbyists.

List of 76 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Partial decoding of external memory...            01/01/70 00:00      
   8 bit DATA Space            01/01/70 00:00      
      aka "PDATA"            01/01/70 00:00      
   Adres Latch            01/01/70 00:00      
      corrections to all the above replies            01/01/70 00:00      
         Partial decoding of external memory...            01/01/70 00:00      
            There are two locations in the LCD            01/01/70 00:00      
               Re: There are two locations in the LCD            01/01/70 00:00      
                  timing is the reason ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     one fact expanded            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Thanks for the advice...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        still?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Maybe it wouldn't hurt to spend time reading the datasheet            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Checking out the Datasheets...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              That's interesting ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Not all BASIC are the same            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    does that apply to BASCOM?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       "improvements" or extensions?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Modern versions of BASIC            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Re: That's interesting ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Programming on the Fringe            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Re: Programming on the Fringe            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          To PC or not - but avoid dead ends            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I'd recommend you think some more about all that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             That's the key!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Brain pollution            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                re: teaching language            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Introduce a computer or introduce how to program            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Initial attraction is fundamental flaw            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Which concepts do you find particularly hard to grasp?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Pointers are normally the main problem when learning C            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Is the problem specifically 'C', though?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          pointers aren't unique to 'C'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Pointers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Big difference in concept - C actually unusual            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Remember PEEK and POKE            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Pointers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Pointers and type-safety            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          big problems            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Wrong direction            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                goes both ways            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Re: Which concepts do you find particularly hard to grasp?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Not a casual subject            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Re: Not a casual subject            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I think it's already been said in this thread...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                one C book should do            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Manzi?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   It might not hurt to do this in a different sequence            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Re: one C book should do            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Language matters            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      you haven't seen ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Yes, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Languages helps but isn't enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Re: you haven't seen ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            RE: been looking at snippets            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Re: been looking at snippets            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Details in standard + compiler manual            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                      a book doesn't detail everything            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     You need to study the compiler documentation            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        You need to lean the language first!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           my point was ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Re: You need to study the compiler documentation            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Go directly for C            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              i second this            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Re: Go Directly to C            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 C support            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           the big advantage of PASCAL is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              C isn't that dangerous if caring for compiler warnings            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 So ... C++ is not of interest in this context            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    It's about bracketing claims            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       I did say, "in this context", didn't I?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          Be careful with your asides!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          Always give enough context to statements            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             OK ... I stand corrected            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                Separate thread!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   I hoped someone would do that            01/01/70 00:00      

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