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???
04/09/12 02:16
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#187064 - Try document an invention before it's invented...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
That you write "I knew you'd have to come in with something irrelevant" only shows that you totally, 100%, missed the point.

"No coding should take place until the end-product is defined. It can't be defined until the hours, month, or centuries of research, among other things, are complete. "

But the project includes the research. And you do not know what the final product can be before you have done the research. And the research do include writing code.

What part of this is so hard to understand: THE RESEARCH IS OFTEN TO A BIG PART CODING!

Don't you get it? Research is building prototypes, and evaluate. Then build better prototypes and evaluate. And every prototype contains code. Hopefully as improved spins of the code from the previous prototype.

You did not get any ABS break system from people writing a complete documentation first. They just did not know what would be a suitable solution until they had made prototypes and tested. It's only the company that comes later and wants to duplicate the system that can write the documentation and full specifications before they start any coding.

"i think what you've written about reducing that board in size is complete nonsesne. If you know what the circuit does, how and when it does it, etc, then how big the board is makes little difference."
Yet more example how you sleep instead of think when you read the text. It's an example of a reengineering of a known solution. So the previous system can be seen as the full documentation - all that is needed is to "repackage" the solution in a better way. That is a situation where you don't really have any research, and can have all documentation up-front.

"then how big the board is makes little difference. If you haven't completely screwed up the hardware design, the requirements documents still apply, and coding can proceed once the hardware is specified. "
Since that was exactly what I did say - why was it so hard to then figure out that this was an example of reengineering where you do know all you need to accomplish beforehand?

Documentation is easy when you don't need research.

Documentation beforehand is not possible when you need research to even figure out how to implement something.

When implementing a compiler, the language standard is the major part of the documentation. And it exists before the compiler is written. So the extra documentation relates to implementation-specific behaviour, command-line switches etc.

When creating a new programming language, you don't get the documentation until after - you can't document until you know what the language will end up being. The majority of creating a new programming language is research. Testing what happens if going different routes etc.

Inventions just can not be documented before the invention have been made. Because if you do document it beforehand, then you must obviously already have made the invention to know what to document. So obviously impossible to do.

We have had this debate before - you just don't seem to be involved in any projects that does include inventions or research. And because of that, you just can not conceive that it exists.

List of 92 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
has linux had its chips?            01/01/70 00:00      
   some weirdo in sandals a ponytail            01/01/70 00:00      
      Problem is            01/01/70 00:00      
      possibly, but not only            01/01/70 00:00      
      It's all in the history ... and "read the code" doesn't work            01/01/70 00:00      
         Good points!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Why not a firm objective?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Lots of projects have a large percentage research            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I knew you'd have to come in with something irrelevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Try document an invention before it's invented...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Here's some research for you, Per            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Richard to give an example            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I'd like YOU, Erik, to come up with one example ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Always prejudice from Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 'documenting' means many things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 here we go again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    when you're wrong, you're wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I do not have a microscope and probes that small            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          So you've made no observations ... you just guessed ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             and that irks you immensely            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                What did you do, aside from guessing?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   then please, tell me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Are you willing to explore this in detail?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         now you are jumping            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Your references aren't exactly backing your view            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It's not about me ... it's about process            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 But processes contains feedback loops            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I believe you've gone off-the-rails, Per            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       But getty isn't Linux            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          it's a small piece, but it's an example            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             But not of Linux            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It was part of the distribution.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 'Research' can mean many things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Yes, but that's in a different context            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You still haven't told what Linux documentation you miss            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I don't know what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Still claims based on assumptions and not facts            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not everyone is completely stupid            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   But what is the relevance today?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I've no opinion about the current LINUX            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         and, you Richard, who loves living in the past            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            just a minute, Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Examples?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Nothing has changed since 15 years ago ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     at least not Richards opinions :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Still lots of assumptions and unbacked claims            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Oh, Richard, I have a job for you            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I had Yourdons first book as manuscript and ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              be careful ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 were you once a bartender ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    You have to accept the difference ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 We are careful            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Hog Wash.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Odd that you see it that way ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I just documented fully            01/01/70 00:00      
               Because an "Objective" is not a final product specification            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I have to disagree ... the objective specification is step 1            01/01/70 00:00      
            documentation            01/01/70 00:00      
               Definitely not the "usual response"            01/01/70 00:00      
   Android            01/01/70 00:00      
      I don't think so            01/01/70 00:00      
         Don't agree            01/01/70 00:00      
      all due respect, no.            01/01/70 00:00      
         Apple may have a price match on the superluxourious            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: Apple may have a price match on the superluxourious            01/01/70 00:00      
               but 95% of the population does not need....            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Web browsing normally the most power-hungry you can do            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: 95%            01/01/70 00:00      
               So how exactly am I wrong?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  But Android is Linux            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Just the opposite            01/01/70 00:00      
                        {sigh}            01/01/70 00:00      
                           just like the preacher said to the atheist            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: How exactly?            01/01/70 00:00      
      850000 Android phones activated per day, linux video            01/01/70 00:00      
   anecdotes...            01/01/70 00:00      
      These guys...            01/01/70 00:00      
         digital audio consoles            01/01/70 00:00      
   The Rasperry Pi Foundation clearly doesn't think so!            01/01/70 00:00      
      The world isn't just a few companies            01/01/70 00:00      
   the basic problem with free software is...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Careful with the use of "Linux". Most things "Linux" aren't!            01/01/70 00:00      
         I did refer to linux itself            01/01/70 00:00      
            Wrong hw selected, or just big lack of platform knowledge?            01/01/70 00:00      
               a port            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Always danger with low-level code for platform            01/01/70 00:00      
      True - but "paid-for" is not necessarily any better!            01/01/70 00:00      
         when selecting any tool            01/01/70 00:00      
      As Stallman said.....            01/01/70 00:00      
         free            01/01/70 00:00      
            All about volume or already existing knowledge/experience            01/01/70 00:00      
   Well...say what you like about me, and many people do.            01/01/70 00:00      

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