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???
05/16/09 23:26
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#165432 - One step at a time
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Per Westermark said:
You continue to state this as a fact, all the time failing to notice the real world. Interrupt latency is not clock cycles until noticing an interrupt. The interrupt latency that matters is ns from interrupt source until the critical part of the interrupt has been serviced.

No ... I believe the interrupt latency is the time from when the interrupt is recognized until the first byte of the interrupt service routine is being executed. However, with a pipeline, there's a large penalty afterward, in that, once the pipeline is flushed, the pipeline is loaded with the interrupt code, then entered, and completed, the pipeline has to be restored, else the prior process can't continue.

Part of this problem, is because you think a pipeline is something that makes one instruction take more time. It makes one instruction consume more "machine cycles".

No ... actually, it makes EVERYTHING in the machine take more machine cycles.

But each machine cycle is simpler, allowing the same process geometry to run each machine cycle at a faster pace. So the total time of the instruction will not grow proportional to the number of steps in the pipeline.

That's why they pipeline ... but it implicitly means more steps per instruction, and it's also why pipelining is seldom of use with "one-clockers" unless they also use a cache, which also introduces the same hassles as pipelining, among others.

The second thing, is that the pipeline is concurrent. Most of the steps of the pipeline does something on every clock cycle. At the simplest (looking back 25-30 years), you just have staggered execution with overlapping:


Yes, but it means more machine cycles per instruction, though it may require only one machine cycle per pipeline stage. However, since it makes each instruction consume more than one cycle, it's incompatible with pure one-clockers.

Clock cycle: the time between corresponding edges of the external clock.

Machine cycle: the time between rising corresponding edges of the system clock.

Instruction cycle: The amount of time taken to execute, completely, the shortest of a processor's instructions.

Ideally, in FPGA, one instruction cycle = one machine cycle = one propagation cycle, memory => ALU => memory, in the context of the architecture I mentioned before, wherein all ROM, RAM, SFR-space, and external memory are part of global memory. Clearly, that path is the rate-determining step. It requires no pipelining, and would benefit little from it.

RE

List of 74 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
max clk freq            01/01/70 00:00      
   Which            01/01/70 00:00      
   300MHz            01/01/70 00:00      
      .            01/01/70 00:00      
         Does that make it effectively 600MHz, then...?            01/01/70 00:00      
            That are the links I found...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Interesting item, but did you notice ... ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  300Mips, equivalent to 3.6GHz!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     That's slightly misleading ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        You sure about your math?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's confusing ... typical marketing drivel            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Based on the claims you posted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Those aren't my claims!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Read comments _before_ (not) answering them            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Architecture speed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That was my take too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Of course, it does not depend on CLK frequency!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I cannot see a confusion            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Not all one-clocker mfg's make the same claims            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    But...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 comparison of 12- and less-clockers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Very nice!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Cool!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Good overview            01/01/70 00:00      
               Another link            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Dhrystone?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes ... one could argue that the core is hobbled            01/01/70 00:00      
                        to sell IS useful... ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Dhrystone            01/01/70 00:00      
                        give data            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I find it useful...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Nonsense            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Nice attitude...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        One thing that would be useful for FPGA            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Still waiting            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Here it is ... It's simple arithmetic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Not at all!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 You missed the "at the same frequency" part            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    You're right, in a sense ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Still thinking of the DT8051 as 12-clocker            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Gee ... I can see where I went off the track!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You deserve respect for that...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Very easy to miss things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It is a shame the documentation is so superficial            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Marketing demagogy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                baloney            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Insignificant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      the "classical" timing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Fair claim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not so fast, there, Pilgrim...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Any alternative?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Possibly ... ???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Still pipelining            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            It doesn't have to pipeline            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               What use?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  if critical, lock - if you can            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     What question?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Whatever happened to Amit Mittal ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           maximum speed of a car            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Pigeon Poster?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        no question, uncernity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  It's not that difficult ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Are we talking about the same thing?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        It is a matter of how you choose to view things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Q still open: any 8051 with only two clock transitions?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              I do not believe bigger is better ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 You argue quite much for not caring            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Without going into too much detail ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       Pipeline for concurrency            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          One step at a time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Many steps at the same time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              1-clocker without pipelining            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Interesting link - I just wish it was a bit meatier            01/01/70 00:00      
   what the datasheet for the particular device states            01/01/70 00:00      

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