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???
05/08/09 16:13
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#165160 - Here it is ... It's simple arithmetic
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Now, Per, what part of the clear claim, "Dhrystone 2.1 benchmark program runs exactly 8.1 times faster than the original 80C51 at the same frequency," is unclear? It's not unreasonable, and it's not unrealistic. It's just not particularly impressive, in light of the performance of one-clockers.

As it happens, however, "one-clockers" operate at nominally 12 times as fast as the original 80C51. While 8.1 times the performance is respectable, it's at much (orders of magnitude) greater cost than simply buying a commercially available one-clocker, so one has to have other justification.

As everyone interested in these matters knows, these claims are somewhat "soft" in that, due to slightly different instruction timing from core to core.

My colleagues and I have "examined" a number of soft-cores, and found that few of them come with totally realistic claims.

These limitations arise from the methods used to increase the performance of the core in test environments. Most common is the practice of using a very large, very costly FPGA as a trial environment, allowing the entire ram and rom content to reside on-chip, which is a very costly way to provide ram and rom, costing perhaps only one order of magnitude as much as using external resources but which generally improves performance. Another is the consumption a considerable portion of the FPGA resources to implement the core in the most performance-efficient way possible, making it difficult to utilize the remaining resources effectively. One wouldn't consider a soft-core in FPGA if one could purchase an adequate MCU with the peripheral features one requires on-chip. Careful hand-routing is a given, of course.

My gripe with the "marketing literature" provided is that the claims are incomplete. The vendor claims

SPARTAN-3E-5 using 1029 slices without debug support or 1172 slices with it, and yielding 75 MHz performance.

They don't tell us which size Spartan-3E device they use to arrive at this figure. Further, the 75 MHz performance it offers doesn't compete well with the various one-clockers on the market, though I'd guess it results in a cost an order of magnitude greater than the commercially available MCU's. Now, keep in mind that it isn't THIS core that provides the claim of 300 MHz performance. It seems to top out at about 200 MHz. If you divide that 200-210 MHz by 12, it suggests one would attain nominally similar performance with a one-clocker at about 17.5 MHz. I was giving THIS core, whose vendor made no such claim, credit for the 300 MHz performance claimed by the other core-vendor. It's simple arithmetic, and a gross oversimplification, but I'd guess even you, having a different viewpoint, see what's indicated.

RE

List of 74 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
max clk freq            01/01/70 00:00      
   Which            01/01/70 00:00      
   300MHz            01/01/70 00:00      
      .            01/01/70 00:00      
         Does that make it effectively 600MHz, then...?            01/01/70 00:00      
            That are the links I found...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Interesting item, but did you notice ... ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  300Mips, equivalent to 3.6GHz!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     That's slightly misleading ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        You sure about your math?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's confusing ... typical marketing drivel            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Based on the claims you posted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Those aren't my claims!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Read comments _before_ (not) answering them            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Architecture speed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That was my take too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Of course, it does not depend on CLK frequency!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I cannot see a confusion            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Not all one-clocker mfg's make the same claims            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    But...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 comparison of 12- and less-clockers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Very nice!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Cool!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Good overview            01/01/70 00:00      
               Another link            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Dhrystone?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes ... one could argue that the core is hobbled            01/01/70 00:00      
                        to sell IS useful... ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Dhrystone            01/01/70 00:00      
                        give data            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I find it useful...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Nonsense            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Nice attitude...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        One thing that would be useful for FPGA            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Still waiting            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Here it is ... It's simple arithmetic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Not at all!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 You missed the "at the same frequency" part            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    You're right, in a sense ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Still thinking of the DT8051 as 12-clocker            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Gee ... I can see where I went off the track!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You deserve respect for that...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Very easy to miss things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It is a shame the documentation is so superficial            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Marketing demagogy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                baloney            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Insignificant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      the "classical" timing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Fair claim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not so fast, there, Pilgrim...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Any alternative?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Possibly ... ???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Still pipelining            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            It doesn't have to pipeline            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               What use?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  if critical, lock - if you can            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     What question?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Whatever happened to Amit Mittal ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           maximum speed of a car            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Pigeon Poster?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        no question, uncernity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  It's not that difficult ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Are we talking about the same thing?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        It is a matter of how you choose to view things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Q still open: any 8051 with only two clock transitions?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              I do not believe bigger is better ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 You argue quite much for not caring            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Without going into too much detail ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       Pipeline for concurrency            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          One step at a time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Many steps at the same time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              1-clocker without pipelining            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Interesting link - I just wish it was a bit meatier            01/01/70 00:00      
   what the datasheet for the particular device states            01/01/70 00:00      

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