Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
10/30/11 21:27
Read: times


 
#184460 - RE
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Yes you are right about the under-sizing of the Load-cells. That is why the previous system had developed a lot of errors / problems over the years. I am not sure now as to how much was the drift, but from what i heard from my friend (who actually is not much of an electronics guy), he said the system had 2 primary issues.The weight would change / drift from batch to batch in the same day, specially near afternoon. Now this means there was a lot of drift caused by temperature change.

The load cells and summing modules were mounted in an open area, and absurdely enough, more than half the day, the sun shined directly on the amplifier & cells.

So now if i select the cells, i would atleast consider a safety factor of 1.25 for sizing the load cells. So if :

Total desired material weight = ~950 KGs
Dead weight of hopper = 250 KGs,
then total weight = 1200 KGs
Applying safety factor of 1.25 = 1200 * 1.25 = 1500 KGs
For 3x load-cells, each load cell capacity = 1500 / 3 = 500 KGs


As for the resolution, there is no doubt that 'Legal for Trade' lists resolutions to be 3000 ~ 6000 counts tops. However, a Weigh-Batching system needs much higher resolution than that, possibly around 10,000 counts. To achieve that much of 'displayable' resolution, the internal resolution should atleast be 10x of that, amounting to 100,000 counts or more. This translates to 17-bits, while it is better to have a 18- to 20 bits of resolution.

A 24-bit ADC, with Digital filters applied, would actually result in around 18 bits of useable resolution. But again, this is only ADC resolution. The rest of the Analog system should be able to deliver this 18 bits of resolution too.


You are right about the Passive amp with AD7730, AND that active amps are required mostly with PLCs because the PLCs have generic / universal ADCs that are targeted at general Industrial application, not specific for weighing. The previous system was using a 16-bit module on a S7-300, but since the distance between the load-cells and PLC cabinet was atleast 500 running foot of cable, there was an amp mounted on the hopper fixed-supports.

For an integrated solution, there might not be a need for the active differentiation and amplification of load-cell outputs provided an AD7730 is used. I can follow this approach, if all else fails. My main target was, to design an individual summing amp providing a voltage (0-5 or 0-10V) OR current (0-20mA or 4-20mA) so that i could use it in my project, and if teh results are good, i can replace the 'regular passive' amps on another system at the same plant with these to get better performance. the other plant is based on S7-300 PLCs.

However, if this is not possible, then ofcourse at the end of the day, i will have to make one completely integrated system, and then i can directly use the scheme suggested by Eric / Kai or Micheal to use a 4x channel ADC and connect all load-cells directly to it and do the summing / averaging within uC Code.



List of 58 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Load-cell conditioning / summing            01/01/70 00:00      
   what is that?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: #184430 - what is that?            01/01/70 00:00      
         then say what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
            your description leaves something unclear            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: #184435 - your description leaves something unclear            01/01/70 00:00      
                  where are the loadcells???            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE:            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: #184430 - what is that?            01/01/70 00:00      
         some Q/A            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE            01/01/70 00:00      
               Q/A 2            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     re re            01/01/70 00:00      
                     get rid of that summing amp            01/01/70 00:00      
               you will be lucky to get 16 bits            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Precision again...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Comparison            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        why do you keep babbling about a summing amp            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Priorities...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                              cirrus, ti            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maxim, linear tech, Analog Devices            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                              it takes the same time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               500 running foot of cable            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Go for ADC with multiplexed inputs instead of multiple ADC            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Good Advice            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It depends...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              This is a MODULAR concept !            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 it depends            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 don't be ridiculous            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Consider other parameters too.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       calibration            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       if you do not buy bootleg parts ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Voltage reference            01/01/70 00:00      
            Accuracy...            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Keep the signal paths as simple as possible.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  sun umbrella            01/01/70 00:00      
   Separate Gain Paths - Not The Best            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: #184439 - Separate Gain Paths - Not The Best            01/01/70 00:00      
         Error Budget Calculations?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hysteresis            01/01/70 00:00      
         This should alarm you!            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE            01/01/70 00:00      
               No contradiction...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Digital Summing            01/01/70 00:00      
               with DC exitacion ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            welcome on board            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE:            01/01/70 00:00      
   Look at ADuC845            01/01/70 00:00      
      ADuC845            01/01/70 00:00      
         Noise V good            01/01/70 00:00      
            Ok, then            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List