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???
10/30/11 20:14
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#184457 - some Q/A
Responding to: ???'s previous message
My friend was having a lot of variance batch-to-batch - this was one problem


how big was variance and what precision was achieved by system?


Hopper dead weight = 250 ~ 300 KGs
Load-cells on hopper = 3
Load cell specs :
Type = Tension S-type
Capacity = 500 KG each
Output type = 2mV/V
Connection = 6-wire (EX+, Sense+, x-, Sense-, Out+, Out-) with sheild.
Total measuring range = 1000 ~ 1500 KGs
Minimum weight to measure = 0.1KG
Accuracy = +/-10% approx that of min. resolution

So total max weight is 1800 kg with 3 loadcels x 500 kg each.
Loadcells here are undersized, i suppose they are out of health already.
'Legal' trade accuracy with 'standard' C3 loadcells(3x500 kg capacity) is 0.5 kg, in best case - 0.250 kg . This is something what Your friend should be informed about. So recipes/batches should be developed with these limitations in mind - do not lie Yourself and friend that 0.1 kg accuracy is realistic aim. You can achieve such result (0.1kg) but You can't declare it.

In the modular concept, theoretically, if a single channel fails, only that particular channel module needs to be replaced. This reduces long-term costs and re-calibration time.


If one amp-channel fails, You still will need recalibration with test weights on hopper. Or individual loadcell+amp calibration on test place with test weights (not whole hopper).And here we go to 'digital load cell'.
You can buy new set with new digital loadcells and replace old cells.
In case of fail You will change D-loadcell. Recalibration will be not needed, but price will be high. Or You can DIY D-loadcells.

With 3-4 standard loadcells - passive summing box and AD7730 is enough.
There is no need of amp-boards. Main reason for using amp-boards are 2:
- noise on cable , between loadcells and PLC
- PLC's ADC usually are 'universal' , 12...14 bits.
AD7730 (and other in this class) eliminates amp-need.
Multi-channel amplifier/multi-amplifier box - is not needed in Your system.
Multi- ADC system is good only if You can use:
- reliable loadcells with reliable REALISTIC data in passport( Loadcell's passport data / test report by producer)- test report can be used instead test weight.

or

- test weight to calibrate single loadcell- disconneced from hopper .


Think about temperature changes on loadcell's output too.
Check datasheets with care.

regards

List of 58 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Load-cell conditioning / summing            01/01/70 00:00      
   what is that?            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: #184430 - what is that?            01/01/70 00:00      
         then say what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
            your description leaves something unclear            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: #184435 - your description leaves something unclear            01/01/70 00:00      
                  where are the loadcells???            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE:            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: #184430 - what is that?            01/01/70 00:00      
         some Q/A            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE            01/01/70 00:00      
               Q/A 2            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     re re            01/01/70 00:00      
                     get rid of that summing amp            01/01/70 00:00      
               you will be lucky to get 16 bits            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Precision again...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Comparison            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        why do you keep babbling about a summing amp            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Priorities...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                              cirrus, ti            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 maxim, linear tech, Analog Devices            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                              it takes the same time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               500 running foot of cable            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Go for ADC with multiplexed inputs instead of multiple ADC            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Good Advice            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It depends...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              This is a MODULAR concept !            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 it depends            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 don't be ridiculous            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Consider other parameters too.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       calibration            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       if you do not buy bootleg parts ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Voltage reference            01/01/70 00:00      
            Accuracy...            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Keep the signal paths as simple as possible.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  sun umbrella            01/01/70 00:00      
   Separate Gain Paths - Not The Best            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE: #184439 - Separate Gain Paths - Not The Best            01/01/70 00:00      
         Error Budget Calculations?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hysteresis            01/01/70 00:00      
         This should alarm you!            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE            01/01/70 00:00      
               No contradiction...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  RE            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Digital Summing            01/01/70 00:00      
               with DC exitacion ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            welcome on board            01/01/70 00:00      
      RE:            01/01/70 00:00      
   Look at ADuC845            01/01/70 00:00      
      ADuC845            01/01/70 00:00      
         Noise V good            01/01/70 00:00      
            Ok, then            01/01/70 00:00      

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