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???
06/16/09 21:47
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Msg Score: +1
 +1 Good Answer/Helpful
#166163 - Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Richard said:
If you can't write your program in ASM, you don't know what you're doing. That doesn't mean a programmer shouldn't use HLL's, but it does mean he should know quite well what the resulting ASM should be. Trying to write a delay loop in a HLL is clear evidence of what a person doesn't know.

If you work as a software professional, you may have to support 10 different products using 5 different processor architectures. Some may have 8-pin microcontrollers with a couple of hundred bytes of flash. Some may run a full Linux system. With a full-blown GNU/Linux system on a PPC, you don't spend the time learning to code in assembler unless you have a strong reason to. On the 8-pin processor, you made the processor choice with the intention that nothing but assembler would be used.

Never make life so easy as assuming that assembler knowledge for a specific processor is a requirement to be a competent programmer. That just means that you have focused too narrowly on details.

David Prentice said:
I would suggest a polite refusal would be more appropriate than dropping hints.

I strongly disagree with this opinion. I have done quite a lot of projects in quite a number of fields. With your view, I would have to politely refuse helping with a very large number of questions.

Any competent receiver would gain quite a lot from receiving knowledgeable hints. A big part of development is to recognize the bad solutions, and avoid them. Giving someone the hint that "what would happen if xx happens", can help someone to avoid falling into a deep pit, while at the same time helping them analyzing a problem and building the required knowledge to be able to find a solution on their own.

When you were in school, the teacher didn't walk to each student and said that the answer to the math problem was 17. He/she instead pointed at a part of your equation and noted that you had an incorrect sign, or where doing an incorrect simplification. You don't gain knowledge without own work. And in the end, you do need that knowledge. The alternative to getting that knowledge is to be a buyer and pay for solutions. But even a buyer needs knowledge - without knowledge, you will not kwow what you buy or if the price is good or bad.


List of 95 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
What's wrong with gimme code?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Mainly            01/01/70 00:00      
      I agree with Jez Smith            01/01/70 00:00      
         Non academic gimme code?            01/01/70 00:00      
            This makes me very suspicious            01/01/70 00:00      
            gimme code=my own time is too valuable            01/01/70 00:00      
               Easy to see which is school assignment            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The wise student needs pointers, not complete solutions            01/01/70 00:00      
            "Here's what I've come up with ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               But what's wrong in asking for an example implementaton?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The teacher recognises the good student            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Now there's a laugh if ever there was one ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  nothing IF ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            children should do their own homework            01/01/70 00:00      
   What's wrong with gimmee code.            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sounds Like; Whats wrong with Spoon Feeding..?            01/01/70 00:00      
      perhaps it enables ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Generic solutions applicable to more people            01/01/70 00:00      
         Then they'll become expert at potty ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   it makes you dumb!            01/01/70 00:00      
   How'd you like ten of those guys working for you?            01/01/70 00:00      
      But that's the point!            01/01/70 00:00      
         We agree in principle, Kai ... but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Hiring & firing is expensive!            01/01/70 00:00      
            and that's not all!            01/01/70 00:00      
   As an example            01/01/70 00:00      
      No-one is suggesting breach of copyright            01/01/70 00:00      
         arrogance?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Examples of Erik's arrogance            01/01/70 00:00      
               no, I do not state any such,            01/01/70 00:00      
                   A couple of corrections            01/01/70 00:00      
                     more useful product?            01/01/70 00:00      
         life is not B&W            01/01/70 00:00      
            Good help _is_ to a big part to give hints            01/01/70 00:00      
               Votes and freedom of speech?            01/01/70 00:00      
               When I was a youngster ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Returning to the original subject.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     same same but sometimes different            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Since you like AVRFREAKS so much ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Versatility and diversification            01/01/70 00:00      
                     This is 8052.COM            01/01/70 00:00      
                  and.....            01/01/70 00:00      
         There's always help for those who can do their own work.            01/01/70 00:00      
            There's the key!            01/01/70 00:00      
         that is not the issue            01/01/70 00:00      
            I'm with you 100% on that, Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
               calm down Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                  support for more MCU's makes it more widely useful            01/01/70 00:00      
                     it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Which MCU's will KEIL support?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Irrelevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Keil's blind spot            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Keil will probably get squeezed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              If only that were the case            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Portable 'C' [edited]            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Write what you mean or mean what you write            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    OK ... Here's the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       If bugs is a big problem - consider your compiler choices            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 C is not that difficult            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I can't totally disagree ... it's a matter of degree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Richard misses the point completely            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The thing is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I don't think thats true at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Not what I meant            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Andy's right!            01/01/70 00:00      
         elders and betters would have given a helpful reply.            01/01/70 00:00      
   If you think 8052.com is bad ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   When was it the last time someone asked for code?            01/01/70 00:00      
      oohhh            01/01/70 00:00      
      Here?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Latest example of "Gimme Code"            01/01/70 00:00      
   What the forums are all about            01/01/70 00:00      
      Progress            01/01/70 00:00      
         No, don't agree with "exhausted all the possibilities"            01/01/70 00:00      
            patience            01/01/70 00:00      
         inexperienced            01/01/70 00:00      
            Well actually...            01/01/70 00:00      
               you must have a very smart wife            01/01/70 00:00      
                  If you're a friend ;-)            01/01/70 00:00      
      arrogant?            01/01/70 00:00      
         encouragement            01/01/70 00:00      
            absolutely            01/01/70 00:00      
            What you have to remember            01/01/70 00:00      
               Tim Berners-Lee            01/01/70 00:00      
                  he only invented the web thingy            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Exhausted all the possibilities...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        this is just not fair            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's about attitude            01/01/70 00:00      
                              on intentions etc.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              98% of 100            01/01/70 00:00      
                           good and bad            01/01/70 00:00      
      OK Charles (et al), here's your chance!            01/01/70 00:00      
         re: OK Charles here's your chance            01/01/70 00:00      
            QED.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Yet one more exhausted visitor            01/01/70 00:00      

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