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???
10/14/10 16:52
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Msg Score: +1
 +1 Good Answer/Helpful
#179112 - autorouter - placing parts on both sides of the board
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Hi Jecksons,

I think used different dimention of parts for heap and placing zigzag or not parallel up and bottom will made easy task...


First I want to make a couple of points about vernacular. By "heap" I believe you mean the "stackup," or the stack of layers that make up the board. Also, by "zigzag" I believe you mean "diagonal." In other words, I believe you are talking about rotating the coordinate plane of one side of the board, or the components on one side, so that the components on that side are not orthogonal to the other side.

Also, by "up" and "bottom" I understand you to mean "top" and "bottom," as in the top and bottom layers of the board. It's perfectly acceptable to refer to the two outer layers of a circuit board as top and bottom, although often you will find all of the layers referred to by number (i.e. layer 1, layer 2, layer 3, ..., layer n). In this case layer 1 is the top layer and layer n is the bottom layer. However, since many boards now incorporate components on both sides, you will never see the outer layers referred to as the "parts" layer or the "trace" layer anymore.

If I am wrong about any of these assumptions let me know. For now I will proceed with these understandings.

You say that rotating one side off-orthogonal will "make an easy task." In fact it will not, and what's worse it can actually mess up your autorouter. Look up and study "channels," or "routing grid" and "manhattan distances" in your software's manual to learn why.

As for why you believe it will make your task easier, I'm guessing it's about visualizing, or visually distinguishing, what you are working on. Use colors instead.

All EDA software uses varied colors to display the different layers, specifically so the different layers can be distinguished by the designer. The software will automatically display the color of whichever layer is active on top so that no details are obscured by features on other layers.

You also need to understand that placing a component on the bottom of the board means it must be flipped (mirrored). Again, all EDA software does this automatically when you place the component on the bottom layer. Somewhere in your software is a button or window that will let you specify which layer a component is placed on. It's probably in a properties dialog box for the part in question. Or maybe it's somewhere else. In any case, find and use this feature.

How's about the SMD ways sometimes saw that they drawing with pile style(up components and bottom components)same place.


Depending on the particular instance, this might be a very clever and elgant design solution, or it could just be a lazy and (hopefully) lucky designer.

Some chips, like memory chips, are designed with pinouts that are amenable to this type of interconnection. You can place chips directly onto the same pads, with one chip in mirror image, and they both work. In such cases as this it is an elegant technique that allows for bus net management.

More likely however is that a designer just placed opposing SMT parts in the same coordinates. He figured that since the solder pads exist only on their respective planes, they remain galvenically isolated (they don't short out to each other) and all is well. He probably thought it made his board look nice and neat all organized in pretty ranks and files.

He's kind of like the designer who thought his board looked nice with the SIP headers lined up across the middle of his board (probably where he split a PWR/GND plane) without ever thinking about the effect of a perforation line. Picture the perforation line on a roll of paper towels.

It's true that SMT pads on opposite sides of the board won't short together, but they will capacitively couple. If the circuit still works, it's likely because the designer was lucky. Unless you have a specific reason to do otherwise, it's a good idea to shift parts so they don't align. Or if you need to line them up, at least do the math to make sure that the added capacitive coupling isn't going to mess anything up.

I hope this helps,

Joe

List of 122 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Free PCB design software...            01/01/70 00:00      
   re: Designspark            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, indeed.            01/01/70 00:00      
         RS vs Farnell            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE:            01/01/70 00:00      
               EEEEEK!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: EEEEEK!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Well, now ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Wrong.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It depends on where the data originated            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I'm not sure I get what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Richard!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           did I say that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Hard to explain ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Still no explanation to the "answer is wrong" vote            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       wasn't me, just curious            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Richards            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Ehh???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       This site isn't equipped, and perhaps properly so ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Linked in previous post by me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Yes, I got that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          which is why            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Re: Italics            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yep! It must 'ave been the whiskey ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               But...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Evaluation            01/01/70 00:00      
                     fortunately, many small projects can be "free"            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Oh.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Maybe the rotate contents of upper-left box            01/01/70 00:00      
   took a peek and ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Try...            01/01/70 00:00      
         looks good, what's the catch            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not Farnell!            01/01/70 00:00      
               can live with that and whats that            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Rebranded            01/01/70 00:00      
   One thing to keep in mind ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      This is *not* Eagle!            01/01/70 00:00      
         EasyPC            01/01/70 00:00      
            Is it true, then?            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm merely pointing out ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Errrm.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Maybe, but why would you switch then?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Because...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, and that's really the only "good" version            01/01/70 00:00      
            Of course it is!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Well, my complaint is ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  gentlemen, PLEASE            01/01/70 00:00      
                  EDA tools component libraries            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's just not worth the bother ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        per-design CPLD/FPGA symbols            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ouch.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Some companies likes few customers but large bills            01/01/70 00:00      
                              re: Ouch            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You're right on target            01/01/70 00:00      
                              FPGA pin swapping            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What I've found ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Changing packages            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Depends on the number of pins, doesn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Because...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           In one of these posts ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Oh, Richard!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
   demo??            01/01/70 00:00      
      Great...seems free..            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes, it is Free            01/01/70 00:00      
            Free but..................            01/01/70 00:00      
               No, that's not true            01/01/70 00:00      
   Richard - is this where you're getting confused?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Isn't RS just another vendor?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Whatever happened to your principle...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Isn't this about free PCB software?            01/01/70 00:00      
               It was about a certain *specific* software            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Perhaps, but my point was ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      But subject line seems to indicate all free software            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm just a little p*ssed off ... since it cost $1500 ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Definitely penalty box            01/01/70 00:00      
               Had we not been "sucked in" by the "free" version ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  How did you not notice??            01/01/70 00:00      
                  So you don't like Eagle-CAD - we have got the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Maybe Richard knows what he wants            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Dislike doesn't mean a product is worth zero            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Software is supposed to increase productivity            01/01/70 00:00      
                              So - you taping your boards?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Nope ... I don't do that either            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Still bogus claim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Keep in mind what I do for a living            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Now that *is* a good idea            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Price of bandwidth - or simplicity of use            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Viewing Schematics and Diagrams            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Software is not a car.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Eagle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 re: Eagle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Hobbyists like it because it's cheap, not because it's good            01/01/70 00:00      
                        The choice often isn't mine            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I gotta say, why haven't you told the makers?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              You think I was silent about that?            01/01/70 00:00      
   About DesignSpark PCB ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      EasyPC.            01/01/70 00:00      
         Autorouters            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: Autorouters            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Andy says            01/01/70 00:00      
            Andy Says ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Your "real" software            01/01/70 00:00      
                  "Real" Software            01/01/70 00:00      
      Has anyone worked with the schematic editor?            01/01/70 00:00      
   not related but.....            01/01/70 00:00      
      Placement            01/01/70 00:00      
         autorouter            01/01/70 00:00      
            autorouter - placing parts on both sides of the board            01/01/70 00:00      
               This looks like a classic example...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  And another thing...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Colour??            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It depends - RTFM            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Color of pads depends on surface mount or PTH components            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Layers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     got the point...            01/01/70 00:00      
   At Design Spark            01/01/70 00:00      
      There's a forum for that!            01/01/70 00:00      
      There's a Menu for that            01/01/70 00:00      
         OK..            01/01/70 00:00      

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