Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
08/20/10 13:29
Modified:
  08/20/10 16:07

Read: times


 
Msg Score: -1
 -1 Off-Topic
#178150 - Well, my complaint is ...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
...mainly in the "front end" ... i.e. the schematic capture and library portion of the software. It does the middle of the job, after schematic entry and package outline creation pretty well, but quits before the really important part of the autoroute, leaving a considerable amount of manual cleanup to be done.
[EDIT] (Erik is right ... this ought to be cleared up!) this refers, of course, to bEAGLE, from the poorer portion of which the subject software, Designspark ( http://www.designspark.com/pcb ), allows one to import. My concern is that some misguided people would make their situation worse by doing that, as I really can't imagine any functioning software that would do that part of the job any worse than bEAGLE does it.[/EDIT]

My issue with the first portion of the work, aside from the utterly terrible library management, is that you must provide a specific component outline (footprint) for each symbol in your schematic, which, first of all, means that if you have to adapt your footprint to the specifics of a particular board house, you then have to alter all of the parts in your repertoire that use that package outline, else you'll never again know which ones are "correct" and which are not. Moreover, it's poorly suited to team usage, since, generally speaking, the circuit designer doesn't care about the component outline as much as the guy handling the mechanical (including airflow) factors and the guy actually doing the board layout.

Unfortunately, a new library member has to be produced, including a new footprint, for each schematic in which the package is changed. A "real" software package would allow one to refer to a global package outline library so that the package outline would only have to be entered once, and corrected only once, rather than 1500 times because you now buy the TQFP rather than the PLCC. My own experience with bEAGLE required me to change dozens of components in TQFP and PQFP packages because someone entered the package outline incorrectly, leaving far too much pad under the component, where it couldn't be inspected properly, therefore requiring that each and every component in TQFP208 (consider how many pads have to be changed ... manually ...in order to effect that change) in a series of boards with a dozen of them on it.

From where I sit, the circuit designer chooses the device, but it's up to the purchasing, mechanical, and layout guys to choose the package. It works fine if I'm wearing all of these hats, but if someone is waiting for a schematic and I first have to create the package outlines for components I can't find in the libraries, I find it burdensome, since I, as the circuit designer, don't care about the package or, generally, about the pinout of a CPLD where it's just a back-annotation matter. I do care about the two-hour search for the component and the hour it takes to create a new "component" despite the fact there are already ten versions of the same device in the libraries. Sadly, it's seldom possible to use copy-and-paste because the schematic needs the signal names to match the device signal assignments.

It is, of course, possible to perform the processes ahead of routing, i.e. up through netlist generation in another schematic capture package, and I've done that using the Old DOS OrCAD software. This cuts out 90% of the schematic entry task, but it still requires that library components exist, and those require that a device-specific component outline be present.

Over all, I'd say that importing, into ANY routing package that has a local schematic entry tool, using bEAGLE to handle that part of the task that bEAGLE handles least well is not an advantage, aside from the few instances in which the schematic, and probably the board, already exist.

Note that I'm contrasting this dog, a freebie for small two-layer boards, with the very fast, very efficient, much more complete, and equally free Old-DOS-OrCAD stuff, with a schematic entry package that doesn't require a new footprint for every new component, a digital simulator ... yes, a bit primitive ... a PLD package, and an autorouter/PCB-Editor that handles large boards in up to 16 layers.

RE







List of 122 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Free PCB design software...            01/01/70 00:00      
   re: Designspark            01/01/70 00:00      
      Yes, indeed.            01/01/70 00:00      
         RS vs Farnell            01/01/70 00:00      
            RE:            01/01/70 00:00      
               EEEEEK!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: EEEEEK!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Well, now ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Wrong.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It depends on where the data originated            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I'm not sure I get what you mean            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Sorry...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Richard!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           did I say that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Hard to explain ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Still no explanation to the "answer is wrong" vote            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       wasn't me, just curious            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Richards            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Ehh???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       This site isn't equipped, and perhaps properly so ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Linked in previous post by me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Yes, I got that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          which is why            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Re: Italics            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yep! It must 'ave been the whiskey ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               But...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Evaluation            01/01/70 00:00      
                     fortunately, many small projects can be "free"            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Oh.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Maybe the rotate contents of upper-left box            01/01/70 00:00      
   took a peek and ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Try...            01/01/70 00:00      
         looks good, what's the catch            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not Farnell!            01/01/70 00:00      
               can live with that and whats that            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Rebranded            01/01/70 00:00      
   One thing to keep in mind ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      This is *not* Eagle!            01/01/70 00:00      
         EasyPC            01/01/70 00:00      
            Is it true, then?            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm merely pointing out ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Errrm.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Maybe, but why would you switch then?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Because...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, and that's really the only "good" version            01/01/70 00:00      
            Of course it is!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Well, my complaint is ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  gentlemen, PLEASE            01/01/70 00:00      
                  EDA tools component libraries            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's just not worth the bother ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        per-design CPLD/FPGA symbols            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ouch.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Some companies likes few customers but large bills            01/01/70 00:00      
                              re: Ouch            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You're right on target            01/01/70 00:00      
                              FPGA pin swapping            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What I've found ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Changing packages            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Depends on the number of pins, doesn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Because...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           In one of these posts ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Oh, Richard!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
   demo??            01/01/70 00:00      
      Great...seems free..            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes, it is Free            01/01/70 00:00      
            Free but..................            01/01/70 00:00      
               No, that's not true            01/01/70 00:00      
   Richard - is this where you're getting confused?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Isn't RS just another vendor?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Whatever happened to your principle...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Isn't this about free PCB software?            01/01/70 00:00      
               It was about a certain *specific* software            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Perhaps, but my point was ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      But subject line seems to indicate all free software            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm just a little p*ssed off ... since it cost $1500 ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Definitely penalty box            01/01/70 00:00      
               Had we not been "sucked in" by the "free" version ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  How did you not notice??            01/01/70 00:00      
                  So you don't like Eagle-CAD - we have got the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Maybe Richard knows what he wants            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Dislike doesn't mean a product is worth zero            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Software is supposed to increase productivity            01/01/70 00:00      
                              So - you taping your boards?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Nope ... I don't do that either            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Still bogus claim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Keep in mind what I do for a living            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Now that *is* a good idea            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Price of bandwidth - or simplicity of use            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Viewing Schematics and Diagrams            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Software is not a car.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Eagle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 re: Eagle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Hobbyists like it because it's cheap, not because it's good            01/01/70 00:00      
                        The choice often isn't mine            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I gotta say, why haven't you told the makers?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              You think I was silent about that?            01/01/70 00:00      
   About DesignSpark PCB ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      EasyPC.            01/01/70 00:00      
         Autorouters            01/01/70 00:00      
            re: Autorouters            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE: Andy says            01/01/70 00:00      
            Andy Says ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               RE: Your "real" software            01/01/70 00:00      
                  "Real" Software            01/01/70 00:00      
      Has anyone worked with the schematic editor?            01/01/70 00:00      
   not related but.....            01/01/70 00:00      
      Placement            01/01/70 00:00      
         autorouter            01/01/70 00:00      
            autorouter - placing parts on both sides of the board            01/01/70 00:00      
               This looks like a classic example...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  And another thing...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Colour??            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It depends - RTFM            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Color of pads depends on surface mount or PTH components            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Layers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     got the point...            01/01/70 00:00      
   At Design Spark            01/01/70 00:00      
      There's a forum for that!            01/01/70 00:00      
      There's a Menu for that            01/01/70 00:00      
         OK..            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List