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???
01/18/08 05:13
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#149674 - The nature of learning
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Craig Steiner said:
And while ICE is great, I think you ultimately learn more by banging your head trying to figure out what's going wrong by having to think about your code and trying to consider where it could be failing rather than just stepping through it until your program happens to do something you weren't expecting.

This is why I, and many others, think that debuggers are, for the most part, counter-productive. Software engineering is applied math, and the best debugging consists of examining the code to determine if it is correct, and not in doing a postmortem after a failure. Debuggers do have their uses, but they're rare.

Craig Steiner said:
But I think a newbie benefits from actually suffering through their errors and not just thinking about the actual instruction that turns out to be wrong, but along the way studying and confirming their understanding of many instructions that were actually right.

You learn through failure, not success.

Amen.

I was a software engineer for over two decades, but due to the fact that dim-witted business people (usually) don't understand engineering and are unwilling to hire anyone but wet behind the ears newbies, I'm now well into my second career teaching college math. As part of my training for this second career, I learned a lot about how people learn--some of it from my wife, who has a doctorate in education, some from university sponsored workshops, and some from on the job experience. The bottom line is people learn more from mistakes than they do from success. Google for the 'Moore method of teaching'. A greater depth of understanding comes from banging one's head against the pavement than from merely digesting a bunch of information without really knowing what it all means.

Kudos on the book, Craig. I was unaware of it until this thread.



List of 71 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
8052.com SBC and Book            01/01/70 00:00      
   I'd go silabs derivative devboard            01/01/70 00:00      
      ICE functionality            01/01/70 00:00      
         an incomplete list            01/01/70 00:00      
            amplification            01/01/70 00:00      
               No, only the flash based            01/01/70 00:00      
                  never knew            01/01/70 00:00      
            P89LPC952            01/01/70 00:00      
               952 vs SILabs            01/01/70 00:00      
         yes, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
            sure, but what then            01/01/70 00:00      
               Who said that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I did            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Idiot            01/01/70 00:00      
                        well, somebody had to teach them :(            01/01/70 00:00      
               Problem with that            01/01/70 00:00      
                  unnecessarily hard            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Explanation            01/01/70 00:00      
                        yes and no            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Maybe in a back chapter            01/01/70 00:00      
                              SoftICE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        The nature of learning            01/01/70 00:00      
                           of course, education is absorbing information AND            01/01/70 00:00      
                           comment or amplification            01/01/70 00:00      
                              the embedded printf            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Erik, we two might disagree in many points...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              The right tool for the Job            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 beginners should use the i805x            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 one more right tool for the job            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 comments on clarifications            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Printfs            01/01/70 00:00      
                  maybe not so much ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     comments/replies            01/01/70 00:00      
                  comments/replies            01/01/70 00:00      
   What about PLCC?            01/01/70 00:00      
      interesting, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         A PLCC Socket is solderable            01/01/70 00:00      
         OOPS            01/01/70 00:00      
            I was wondering...            01/01/70 00:00      
               PLC, not PLCC            01/01/70 00:00      
      better if socketed            01/01/70 00:00      
         Socketed - Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
            perhaps you have missed the point            01/01/70 00:00      
   multi-option implementation            01/01/70 00:00      
      Not much            01/01/70 00:00      
   It depends on the board quality ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   schmartboard            01/01/70 00:00      
   Supply PCB with only the smd micro placed            01/01/70 00:00      
   leave it            01/01/70 00:00      
      that makes sense to me ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   simple is still good....            01/01/70 00:00      
      why bother            01/01/70 00:00      
         last time I bought 32KB SRAM I paid $0.48US            01/01/70 00:00      
         use part of a bigger one            01/01/70 00:00      
            that's not really a problem...            01/01/70 00:00      
               it is a problem if you rely on DIL packaging            01/01/70 00:00      
                  what is your definition of "obsoleted"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Have you seen this?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Over the last year ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Gee ... that thing really costs a lot ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         no, it does not            01/01/70 00:00      
            $50            01/01/70 00:00      
            I meant this one            01/01/70 00:00      
   Thanks for comments, keep them coming            01/01/70 00:00      
      nothing comes free...            01/01/70 00:00      
         or            01/01/70 00:00      
         No problem with other design            01/01/70 00:00      
      How about a mezzanine board ... and some tools?            01/01/70 00:00      
         with some really slick code ...            01/01/70 00:00      

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