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???
01/17/08 18:21
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#149662 - comments/replies
Responding to: ???'s previous message
It's easy to not learn the first thing about the address bus, the address latch, etc. if you have a state-of-the-art processor that has everything on-chip.
which almost beg the question "do you need to". I guess that when someone get to where 128k of flash and 8k of RAM is not enough, the basic knowledge will be established in most of the other stuff. So the question really is "what should you learn first?".

this point, a person could buy a SiLabs kit and use a 'C' compiler and write some code knowing precious little about how it works.
In theory, yes. However if you read the SILabs forum you will see that it is not so. Many with questions at the SILabs forum have been helped by "the bible". One fact about the SILabs chips ia that for some derivatives, in some applications, there is no way around modifying startup.a51 in assembler

I'm hoping my book produces more knowledgeable developers rather than just code monkeys that can write code but have no idea how it works or whether or not it is efficient.
I definitely share that hope.

I fear that basing everything on state-of-the-art processors might hide too much of the inner workings that separates a code money from a knowledgeable 8052 developer.
Well, that is my argument for using a chip with ICE functionality.

Remember that I'm talking about a book that tries to teach these concepts. I'm not arguing what is better for the professional or experienced developer. I'm wondering which approach is most instructive for learning.
I kind of wonder myself, so - who knows. What I state re "under the hood" etc is, of course based on what helps me the most.

And while ICE is great, I think you ultimately learn more by banging your head trying to figure out what's going wrong by having to think about your code and trying to consider where it could be failing rather than just stepping through it until your program happens to do something you weren't expecting.
Here I (partially) agree. It is a fact that no one approach, regardless of which you choose, will lead to succesful, efficient debugging.

You could quote Dolly Parton on page one of your book
"Y'all have fun now, ya hear"

Erik

List of 71 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
8052.com SBC and Book            01/01/70 00:00      
   I'd go silabs derivative devboard            01/01/70 00:00      
      ICE functionality            01/01/70 00:00      
         an incomplete list            01/01/70 00:00      
            amplification            01/01/70 00:00      
               No, only the flash based            01/01/70 00:00      
                  never knew            01/01/70 00:00      
            P89LPC952            01/01/70 00:00      
               952 vs SILabs            01/01/70 00:00      
         yes, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
            sure, but what then            01/01/70 00:00      
               Who said that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I did            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Idiot            01/01/70 00:00      
                        well, somebody had to teach them :(            01/01/70 00:00      
               Problem with that            01/01/70 00:00      
                  unnecessarily hard            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Explanation            01/01/70 00:00      
                        yes and no            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Maybe in a back chapter            01/01/70 00:00      
                              SoftICE            01/01/70 00:00      
                        The nature of learning            01/01/70 00:00      
                           of course, education is absorbing information AND            01/01/70 00:00      
                           comment or amplification            01/01/70 00:00      
                              the embedded printf            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Erik, we two might disagree in many points...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              The right tool for the Job            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 beginners should use the i805x            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 one more right tool for the job            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 comments on clarifications            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Printfs            01/01/70 00:00      
                  maybe not so much ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     comments/replies            01/01/70 00:00      
                  comments/replies            01/01/70 00:00      
   What about PLCC?            01/01/70 00:00      
      interesting, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         A PLCC Socket is solderable            01/01/70 00:00      
         OOPS            01/01/70 00:00      
            I was wondering...            01/01/70 00:00      
               PLC, not PLCC            01/01/70 00:00      
      better if socketed            01/01/70 00:00      
         Socketed - Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
            perhaps you have missed the point            01/01/70 00:00      
   multi-option implementation            01/01/70 00:00      
      Not much            01/01/70 00:00      
   It depends on the board quality ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   schmartboard            01/01/70 00:00      
   Supply PCB with only the smd micro placed            01/01/70 00:00      
   leave it            01/01/70 00:00      
      that makes sense to me ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   simple is still good....            01/01/70 00:00      
      why bother            01/01/70 00:00      
         last time I bought 32KB SRAM I paid $0.48US            01/01/70 00:00      
         use part of a bigger one            01/01/70 00:00      
            that's not really a problem...            01/01/70 00:00      
               it is a problem if you rely on DIL packaging            01/01/70 00:00      
                  what is your definition of "obsoleted"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Have you seen this?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Over the last year ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Gee ... that thing really costs a lot ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         no, it does not            01/01/70 00:00      
            $50            01/01/70 00:00      
            I meant this one            01/01/70 00:00      
   Thanks for comments, keep them coming            01/01/70 00:00      
      nothing comes free...            01/01/70 00:00      
         or            01/01/70 00:00      
         No problem with other design            01/01/70 00:00      
      How about a mezzanine board ... and some tools?            01/01/70 00:00      
         with some really slick code ...            01/01/70 00:00      

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