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???
10/28/06 17:20
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#127102 - Why would a novice build a PCB?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Terry Lingle said:
The market that would "welcome" it would probably never see it. Such an implementatin would be released into the market the same way as the rest of Lynns product is.

I agree. I've never seen any of Lynn's products offerred anywhere, AFAIK.

All of the requests for this product come from students or hobbyists I have yet to see a valid argument for a new implementation.

I sympathise with the novices that get the rude awakening here but the fact is they need the correct information as soon as possible That information is : The 8255 is a near obsolete chip that was not designed or organized to work well with the 8051/2 architecture. Further these novices need to understand that there are probably less costly ways to get to the final functionality they desire than using an 8255.

While I agree with the last point, i.e. that there may be less-costly ways to do what any specific application of the 8255 does, I don't agree with the relevance of the notion that it "was not designed or organized to work well with the 8051/2 architecture." In fact, it was not equipped with internal address latches, as were the 8155 and 8156 RIOT chips, or the 8185 SRAM, which WERE designed to work with that architecture, though they were originally intended for the 8085, the external bus of which works in more or less in the same way as the 805x's, but aside from that, it works as well as any other general-purpose peripheral would work.

That's what's troubled me about the discussions surrounding the 8255 in this forum. Just because the first page of the datasheet doesn't say "Designed and built for use with the 8051" doesn't mean it won't work suitably. Naturally, as MCU speeds have increased, there are concerns about access timing. Naturally, since the 805x doesn't have a wait line, it's necessary to have the MCU operate at a rate compatible with the 8255's access time, and that varies considerably. However, the standard (steam-driven, as Erik puts it) 12 MHz 805x, which is the slowest version I've ever encountered, works just fine with the oldest, slowest 8255 version that was ever made. I haven't investigated which 805x versions, at which clock rates, are capable of generating a nRD or nWR pulse width at least 250 ns long, but I'd guess many, particularly those in use by students and experimentors, actually do.

Further, I haven't seen "All of the requests for this product " so I can't address that matter. What I've said is that if Lynn were to provide a 25 ns version capable of driving 24 mA Iol/Ioh at its outputs, it would be useable with most 805x's. It would undoubtedly outsell the Intersil or Toshiba versions, if it could compete with them in price. I'd consider it, since it would then provide the necessary performance to work as an external peripheral with most 805x's and provide the output current necessary to drive most external-world applications.

The principal benefit the 8255 offers is its flexibility. If you're designing a set of hardware for a specific application, yes, you can do that better and for less money with a CPLD or discrete (SSI/MSI) logic. However, if you're designing a "general purpose" board for use by students, hobbyists, experimentors, use in "one-of" applications, you don't know what the specific requirements are. If you have a versatile device such as the 8255 or 6821, you're offering their inherent adaptability on such a board. That's something that serves a wider purpose than just saying it could be done better.

I've yet to see a way to do what an 8255 can do for less cost, retaining the versatility that the 8255 offers. Keep in mind, the 8255 provides as much output drive as nearly any 805x's port bits. You can seldom do "useful work" with those outputs without external "help."

An additional issue is the packging. If the user (student) is having a board done it will probably be surface mount. What package choices are available for the 8255? What packages would Lynn's implementation be released in?

I've no idea what Lynn's packaging options are, but, as he's working in the replacement market, I'd assume he'll be using standard packaging for the device in question.

I've also no idea what business a student or hobbyist building one of something would want with a PCB. If he's using a PCB, particularly if he's using a PCB and asking about an 8255, I'd guess it's one he's bought, and it already has accomodation for the 8255 on it. PCB's are for mass production. They're ridiculously costly in units, and often require multiple respins before they're properly configured. If he's got that sort of money, he should hire a consultant.

Richard as you commented in a different thread about the terrible waste of time and effort on a product that was more artisic than usefull can I ask what cutting edge project can you see using an 8255 in any form or package?
Terry

This question should be addressed in the thread to which you refer. However, it does warrant some self-examination.

Most of the self-made millionaires I know made their fortunes not by applying "cutting edge" technology to a project that interested or amused them, but by thinking about what they could do to improve the lot of others. They did that by finding 20th-century, typically pre-war, technology to problems that were being addressed with what was essentially 18th-century technology. Many such problems still exist. If one spends time thinking about what will benefit others rather than what will amuse himself, he's got a chance of doing something great. If all he can think about is his own personal pleasure, then perhaps what would be most appropriate would be a long walk on a short pier, in shark-infested waters. At least, then, he'd be of some use.

As for the self-examination, one should consider whether he concerns himself more with getting and having a particular job than with doing the job. It's common, but if his main concern at work is not doing, rather than keeping, the job, then he's just a drag on the race. Too many people are concerned only with their own amusement and pleasure, and not with the net benefit they create. If their primary function is mental, and/or physical masturbation, we can do without 'em.

RE





List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Any value to a fast 8255?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Fast 8255            01/01/70 00:00      
      8255 breakeven volume            01/01/70 00:00      
         there are a few things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            8255 vs 6824            01/01/70 00:00      
               too many users failed            01/01/70 00:00      
            Reconfiguration            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes, one had to know how the device behaved.            01/01/70 00:00      
               the 8255 was tough to learn, but in its crummy way            01/01/70 00:00      
   peaple would rather forget the 8255            01/01/70 00:00      
      Why do you suppose that is, Jez?            01/01/70 00:00      
   raison d'etre            01/01/70 00:00      
      Main reason, I think            01/01/70 00:00      
         There are other reasons, too.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Thanks for sharing your experience!            01/01/70 00:00      
      There's also a large replacement part market.            01/01/70 00:00      
         but for that you have to compste with Intersil            01/01/70 00:00      
            Intersil still only offers the \'80\'s technology            01/01/70 00:00      
               May be I am wrong, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It hasn't got the same sort of ports as the 805x            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Yes, you are right            01/01/70 00:00      
                     8255            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Why would a novice build a PCB?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Products and packages            01/01/70 00:00      
                              gee ... and I've never before heard of Tekmos ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   quick thoughts            01/01/70 00:00      
      You're on the right track, EXCEPT ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   on analogy...            01/01/70 00:00      
   8255 in India            01/01/70 00:00      
      It makes little sense to teach 8085, or does it?            01/01/70 00:00      
         I Agree            01/01/70 00:00      
            Do not attend            01/01/70 00:00      
               Every Collage            01/01/70 00:00      
               Not "College Think"            01/01/70 00:00      
      just had a thought - Lynn, Jez            01/01/70 00:00      
         Enhanced 8255            01/01/70 00:00      
            If all one could get is PLCC ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         well i have come up with a way.            01/01/70 00:00      
            There is a problem with FPGA\'s ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               nRD is needed in the 8255 as a clock            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Perhaps that\'s because they use latches            01/01/70 00:00      
                     on using undefined states            01/01/70 00:00      
                        grounding chip select is risky            01/01/70 00:00      
                           but what if it is grounded?            01/01/70 00:00      
               clinging to the past            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Don't forget the Maxim/Dallas parts, they use 5V0            01/01/70 00:00      
                     as usual apples and oranges            01/01/70 00:00      
                        you need to see it from Richard's viewpoint            01/01/70 00:00      
                           he has the right to his viewpoint ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              There's room for disagreement on that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        "development" and "replacement" are different            01/01/70 00:00      
                           well, for the (in)famous "universal board"            01/01/70 00:00      
                              If there's a market, it would be for THE part            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 again mixing parametres            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    the value of an improved 8255 in legacy applicatio            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I'm not so sure about that one ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          OK that was just one - bad - example...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             My point and point of view, all along has been ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    let's clear up some misconceptions ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      8085?            01/01/70 00:00      
         RE:8085?            01/01/70 00:00      

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