??? 03/09/09 23:52 Read: times |
#163289 - In some cases, perhaps LED's are not the right technology Responding to: ???'s previous message |
Per Westermark said:
Richard Erlacher said:
isn't it my job, as the circuit designer, to provide a driver circuit that can do that? Which you do by not using a 16-bit or 32-bit driver but settle for a 8-bit driver if you intend to build a multiplexed display capable of use outdoors or in strong light. If the design need only support +30°C ambient temperatures in a shaded environment (shaded from heat and strong light) then you can run the LEDs with reduced current (averaging way below the datasheet limit) which both reduces the heat from the diodes and the heat from the drivers. I'm not convinced that it matters one bit whether the driver is driving 8, 16, 32, or 128 bits. What matters is how well the designer handles the system requirements and how well he selects suitable components. Isn't it my job as a circuit designer to specify a LED that can actually meet all the constraints? It isn't a constraint of the LED that it will give dimmer light if it isn't lit for 100% of the time. With a constant efficiency figure, common natural laws would suggest that for every reduction in the pulse quota, you must compensate with corresponding power increase in the pulses to keep the average power through the LED the same. Oh, but it is! If you know you have, at most, a 1/32 duty cycle when multiplexing yet can't exceed the maximal power dissipated in the driver when the current through the LED peaks at 1.5x the DC rating, well, you have to find another multiplexing scheme. If you have a registered SIPO register, then it remains static as long as you allow it to do so, and you can then draw current from each of its outputs for a period of time proportional to the rate at which you have to scan in order to meet timing constraints. If you have 16 outputs, there's no reason you can't draw current from each of them in pairs, or quads, if it meets power dissipation limits and provides the necessary brightness at that timing ratio. But a driver chip that only has to drive one LED with 0.1W for each output will be way cooler than a driver chip that has to handle 8 LED for each output and has to light each LED with 0.8W for 1/8 of the time to make sure that each LED on average gets 0.1W when lit. So in the end, you as a designer have to think about: - Required sign intensity. - LED intensity at max average current. - Max pulse quota for the LED, to figure out how much extra current you can add (or loss of intensity) if multiplexing - Max current the driver chip can handle. - Max power dissipation of the driver chip. - Available board space for your hot driver chips. - Max ambient temeprature. - Max internal heat rise from diodes and driver chips. - Worst possible convection cooling. - ... Yes, you have to consider all of those, which is why you can't limit yourself to one or two multiplexing schemes, nor can you limit yourself only to use highly integrated constant-current drivers. But since everything is physics, it really is natural laws. The 16- and 32-bit driver chips can not be used in some designs unless you use active cooling or accepts a dim sign. Using heatsink + fan or water cooling are possible choices. But not choices that are likely selected. Finding a 16-bit driver chip in a more than twice-as-large capsule with half the thermal coefficient would keep the status-quo but then you wouldn't get any PCB space by switching from a 8-bit to a 16-bit chip. True enough, but you CAN gain lots of options by using discrete components to provide the current and use mass sinks, e.g. ULN2803, which are capable of handling considerable currents. As an option, you could use n-channel MOSFET's as low-side drivers to sink your column-current if you mux column by column, or two columns, etc. I've seen several versions of small-package MOSFET pairs or arrays that would be very effective. Moreover, since they're small (SOT-23 size or the like) and have an on-resistance well under 1 ohm, often under 0.1 ohm), they won't be heating up much, even when sinking well over an ampere. If the LED manufacturers can manage to squeeze out more light from the diodes without increasing their costs (and without dropping the ratio between max pulse and max average current at the same time) then signs can be built that will shine at the required intensity but at lower drive currents.
In the same way, product improvements may allow new drivers to be designed that can work at higher temperatures without the component price going sky-high at the same time. There is no guarantee that a device for a given application can and will be "cheap", nor can it be guaranteed that such a display can be made "small". If you absolutely have to have a sign that will be readable at 50 meters in direct sunlight, you'll have to spend whatever is necessary, and tolerate otherwise objectionable size, else you'll have to accept compromised performance. So while this is a question of physics, it is definitely possible that future 16-bit or 32-bit drivers with current form factors can be used in signs capable of working in direct sunlight (surviving heat and having enough intensity to be visible). But we are not there yet, so Erik's note about problems with the bigger drive chips is very relevant. Sadly, that's probably true in the eyes of most designers, though the parts probably won't fail if used as specified. It's only when one allows violations of electrical, thermal, and other environmental specs that well-designed components will routinely fail. If the display won't work with DC drive, then attempting to make it work under multiplexing is silly. Given that the sign can be useably operated with DC drive, it's likely that 2:1 multiplexing will work. Whether the anodes are driven in sets of 4 or sets of 256 shouldn't matter, if the LED current the anode drivers provide is constant, and the temperature rise/watt-second is within limits. If you have to have that sign under conditions that won't allow a "normal" design to remain within specificatios for the components you choose, perhaps you need liquid nitrogen cooling, or perhaps you need another approach. Your client, or whoever is going to pay the bill, will have to decide that. If the ambient lighting is so strong that it must be "on" all the time, it's probably the wrong technology. Traffic signals have shown that LED's can be made to work under most lighting conditions with proper shading, but there are conditions under which, though they operate properly, they aren't very visible. RE |