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???
02/26/09 23:25
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#162920 - Kick-starting threads do require some form of pushing
Responding to: ???'s previous message
I have never needed to suffer a situation where power was only available for an hour every day.

But I did start out way before WWW was invented. I remember when I got to load a 1200 baud modem, and how I had to plan what I wanted to do when connecting to the university, since the phone costs couldn't be ignored.

I think that you should maybe read my post once more, and think about what I wrote. If someone wants help, it really is important that they know about, and think about, how a forum works, and what psychological factors that affects the progress of a request.

What little feedback there has been in this thread has shown that a circular buffer is a too large step to take. In my view, the most reasonable smaller step to look at would then be to focus on the actual output code, i.e. ignore fonts or scroll or anything like that and just concentrate on how to emit existing bitmap data at a reasonably high speed. This is a required step that must be taken whatever algorithm that is used for deciding what do display. And it can be performed with a hand-created little bitmap of a single character (possibly duplicated a couple of times) with the only intention that the visible pattern on the 8x8 will confirm that the output code works.

But the thread is currently stuck there. The OP isn't interested in subdividing the problem into smaller sections (maybe for not understanding the value of subdivision of too complex problems). And no one have managed to come up with any other suggestion of a suitable small problem to focus on. In the end, this has just resulted in a thread in dead-lock. When something is in a deadlock state, you have to try to push it in some direction and see if you can get things starting again. The OP did a push - asking for someone to rewrite the code. I did my push, suggesting that the OP should read what has been written in this thread and then come back with more questions or explanations why he avoids the suggestions that have been made.

The final point is that the OP will be much more successful in getting help if he does the reverse of what you suggest. In this case thinks about the people who do help on forums, and what people may have for reasons to help. This is a two-way street. The people who help must try to visualize the problems in a similar way that the person who needs help sees them. But the person who requests help must not take help for granted, and must not think that it is enough to post a request and then dozens of suggestions will come in until the suggestions may be combined into a turn-key solution. The requester must spend more time giving information to direct the help in the correct direction and show that given help is looked at.

Everyone who have spent some time on forums notices that in some threads, people can receive almost infinite amounts of help. The problems may be trivial from a professional developers point-of-view, but there are no comments abut the complexity of the problem, and no remarks even if the same solution is described five times in different wordings with or without graphical help. People help because they get a feeling that the help is meaningful. At the same time, there are every day new threads that almost immediately ends up in a deadlock. Either no answers, or someone throwing in a RTFM or similar. It is important for both requesters and helpers to notice these things and think about why they happen. A helper with a bit of experience can be a bit more forgiving, but a forgiving attitude can't help in a thread where there is no feedback. A requester can avoid initial problems by starting to focus on describing the problem directly in the first thread, and in the description also include the reasoning behind any made decisions. And the requester can avoid thread stalls by showing that he/she is following the thread, and still interested.

Some forums may have a FAQ link about "How to get help on this forum". But in the end, when a thread stalls because of too little feedback you have two choices. Ignore the OP or ask them to activate themselves and start showing that they are a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem. I don't see this as disrespecting the OP or ignoring the social or economical situation the OP may be in.

List of 307 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Scrolling Message in LED Display with 8051??            01/01/70 00:00      
   2 separate problems            01/01/70 00:00      
   the simple way            01/01/70 00:00      
      didnot get you            01/01/70 00:00      
         Standard circular buffer            01/01/70 00:00      
            Thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
               Flickering in scrolling            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Clip to viewport            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Testing on 8x8 display.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Write fastest loop and count instructions            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Any other suggestions            01/01/70 00:00      
                              yes and no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Frankly speaking            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    time, time, time            01/01/70 00:00      
                              You should investigate old-style monochrome video adapters            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 but pretty close            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    not wishing to start a debate ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       pixel rate            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Yes, that's true, but it's irrelevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Persistence matters, and algorithm            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I believe there's a difference in approach here            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Shift registers to drive rows, not columns.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      ...which is why they don'tfit this sort of application            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Think about pulse quota when multiplexing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Yes, the multiplexing affects ultimate brightness ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               never heard of 2 lines???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Yes, but most people can only read one at a time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     16 pix            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        It's news to me ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Good with forums            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Do you mean a REGISTERED shift register?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Absolutely!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         never seen one            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      That's the answer i was looking for...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       one can change the colour on an LED            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       a monochrome display has one LED per pixel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It is seldom so simple as one would like            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I too read 8x8 as pixels/LEDs. However, probelm with scroll            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Please leave that CRT            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   But we area focused            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Chequebook time!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   You haven't told us anything useable!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The Information            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The Information            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Mr. amir            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The Information            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The Information            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      The Information            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Quoting Andy on this            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            re the rating of "Quoting Andy on this"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               LOL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  It was me, Per...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Feedback            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        I agree with you in all points, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           I agree, Kai --- in most cases ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Kick-starting threads do require some form of pushing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         That will be UGLY            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not necessarily...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         That is not ALL the information.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Looked at circular buffer yet?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Has anyone looked at Allegro?            01/01/70 00:00      
      A specific chip for the shift-register solution            01/01/70 00:00      
         Think about total power loss            01/01/70 00:00      
            you tell me            01/01/70 00:00      
      the A6833 and similar offerings            01/01/70 00:00      
   Code, problem, information and schematic.            01/01/70 00:00      
      BU4094 is fast enough, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
         look at 74HC595            01/01/70 00:00      
            Yes, and not to forget the 74HC4094...            01/01/70 00:00      
               and 80 resistors            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Mickey Mousing?? Availibility!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     my absolute impression ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Almost total silence            01/01/70 00:00      
                           ??            01/01/70 00:00      
                              How to activate Aamir?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I don't want to activate Aamir!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Yes, most comments here are free-running without the OP            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Maybe the wrong sorts of questions were asked            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Let's see what the O/P wants to do            01/01/70 00:00      
                           with the amount of effort the OP shows ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What you have failed to consider ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 did you read            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Yes, I did!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        And my absolute impression is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           why should I do that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What does it cost? How many would be needed?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Exactly!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     ST2221 EQUIVALENT            01/01/70 00:00      
                        It's not widely available in the developing world            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Max power loss at high ambient temperatures            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Interesting point ... but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 8- or 16-bit drivers for different applications            01/01/70 00:00      
                           because            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Is this a chicken and egg sort of question?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Different chips for different problems            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 no, applea and oranges            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Isn't that a design parameter?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Physics and practical realities            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          In some cases, perhaps LED's are not the right technology            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       and what does all that to do with ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          They have to remain within specified limits.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Still missing muxed concept            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                No ... I'm not missing the concept ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   yes you are            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      You're thinking too narrowly, methinks.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         no, you are muddling            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            It's just another way to manage a big sign            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               not so, back at ya            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  PWM or shorter on times.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  There's more than one way to skin a cat            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Start producing signs.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Those arguments are weak!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           not for those that have an inkling of understanding            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              So ... how fast can you clock 'em?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 if you had read and not muddled....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Not Bad ! That IS a lot more reasonable!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       why on earth would you want to do that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          If a little bit is good, sometimes more is better ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             you might, I wouldn't            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                I can envision such a thing ... but I don't build signs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   I feel the need to SHOUT            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                      Time to get back to scrolling            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                         as long as the CC drives one pixel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            Don't everyone love a DC-driven sign?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                               In the interest of discussion ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                  get your head out of your ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                     consider ALL the alternatives ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                        Inkling?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           It comes down to why this is being discussed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                              Where is the progress?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                                 Robert Erlacher ??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                                    Oops            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                                 Let's leave irrelevant issues out ... for now            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                                    Quote examples            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                                       No citation needed!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            ... about that schematic ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                               Still thinking single diode            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                  It doesn't HAVE to be done in a conventional granularity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                               I do not think so            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        One other thing ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     THAT IS what PWM does            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        For that, you don't need dedicated hardware            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           never said so            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Give the customer value while making money            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 A lot of intersting issues have been forced to the surface            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Go for KISS            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             fruit salad            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not exactly ... I think you're ignoring the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   this is where you are confoosed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      There's nothing confusing about the procedure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         NO, NO, NO            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Yes, non-mpx is probably easier ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Resistor on varying-current side? Hot, hot, hot            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Please forget CRT            01/01/70 00:00      
      why this complex, why so enamored by darlingtons?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Of course, your Allegro thingis would perfectly fit...            01/01/70 00:00      
            not the transistors, the ULN in the columns            01/01/70 00:00      
      Back to square one. First experiment with fast output            01/01/70 00:00      
      Power is not Sufficient            01/01/70 00:00      
         Semi-correct            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sorry guys            01/01/70 00:00      
   Switch statement            01/01/70 00:00      
      ULN2803 ????            01/01/70 00:00      
         WHY?????            01/01/70 00:00      
         The 2803's OK ... with a current source Anode driver            01/01/70 00:00      
            Yes, unless high cathode currents...            01/01/70 00:00      
               If he's sinking current from, at most, 16 cathodes ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not 16 at a time. 0 or 1 for column. 0..80 for row            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I got it from the O/P's first post            01/01/70 00:00      
                        But you don't do 80:1            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I couldn't have said it better myself!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Code hang-ups...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Watchdog is nice            01/01/70 00:00      
                        not a 'bright' idea            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yes, muxed displays requires high currents to not be dim            01/01/70 00:00      
            which varies by a factor of 1:80            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's not dirt-simple, but it's not rocket-science, either            01/01/70 00:00      
                  first/second????            01/01/70 00:00      
                  evidently it is            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I just came to think of this quiz            01/01/70 00:00      
   Happy three months            01/01/70 00:00      
      It didnot work for me again.....            01/01/70 00:00      
         are you familiar with Ohms law            01/01/70 00:00      
         Write test-code for driving the diodes            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm afraid to tell you,...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Don't shift so much            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes, he must shift byte-wise...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The alternative...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Try this, Aamir...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Thanks Sir.......            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I knew someone would do his work for him!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yes, and it was fun!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes, of course ... but they were far too complex            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I'm really sorry that they were "far too complex"...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    one step at a time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       All many of these guys want is someone to do their work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Big-bang            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Lessons learned            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Lessons...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                the difference            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   He learns and learns and learns...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      that would be true            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         That's the point...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            show me one            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Only feedback tells where the correct level is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Knowledge is still the morst valuable gift            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   You really never had a look at something bigger??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Read what I write, not what you want me to write            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Sorry, Per, but...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Atleast give OP some time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               male cow manure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               This guy is a STUDENT! And probably a lazy one.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Poor...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     It should be a career-ender            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Ignorance is bliss?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Is this a Social Work forum?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Is this a Social Work forum? - no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        ethical behaviour            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Good elbows...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Some people are just lazy, and think they're entitled.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Robots has no feelings            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Where do you put the limit?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Its not the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Prove your point!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              point of disagreement ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Teflon-avoidance of arguments            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    back to the old one            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 There must be a willingness to do the work!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    a nasty thought            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          by silence the OP has admitted            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             He has admitted??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                it is a known fact that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Do you think, that I aggree if I don't reply...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      yes, IF            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It may not have been in this thread            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Plain bogus...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   School projects always problematic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      This is a recurring theme            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Regular on Keil too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Well, too many components            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I was looking for a product I could buy, not a work-product.            01/01/70 00:00      
      And still stuck on the basics            01/01/70 00:00      
   This one's not too costly!            01/01/70 00:00      
      Nice one            01/01/70 00:00      
   facts            01/01/70 00:00      
   Silence talks...            01/01/70 00:00      
      It's because the due-date of his assignment has passed            01/01/70 00:00      
         No the OP, but the two drive-by-shooters            01/01/70 00:00      
            For Per Westermark            01/01/70 00:00      
            "Drive-by-shooters"? Are you cuckoo??            01/01/70 00:00      
               I think that was the basic problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Yes, and as we do not know the state of knowledge...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Once more you focus on bowing and other nonsense            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Do you feel better now??            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Answers...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Try looking from the other direction            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Forum rules...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Constant misunderstandings, or kicking in open doors            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          bow? no, but questions should be answered.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     but we do            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Making mistakes and confusing things...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Missing help?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Why do you all the time interfere in...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 When we ask an O/P a question ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    But that's it, Richard!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You're right, Kai, but not in the way that you might think            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Can't see "not helped"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I'm tired, Per...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Weapons down Kai :)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       we all are            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          we all are -            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             So enumerate the factual errors then            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                You were wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I wish that someday ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I wish that someday ... Is that so            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         And your argument was?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Example            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Just curious            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  No reverse way just wanted to show            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     assisted != having others to do the job            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        From this at least it dosent make            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Come on, now, Ap Charles ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Have you read what Aamir wrote?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Yes, it looks like part of the assignment spec            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Assignment specs? Hardly...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       I guess we see different things in the quoted post            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          These are good arguments...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             We'll never know for certain            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       switch not the big problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          Direct and Indirect calls            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Size of feet?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                I can see your point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   Probably yet another language problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                      The O/P has a part to play, as do we of 8052.COM            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                      Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          Oh dear, Per, please...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             In the eye of the beholder            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                Sorry, I didn't want to hurt you!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 again, it is obvious            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Not big-bang solution, but snippet of code!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I'm not the only one who confuses things...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Yes, language barrier            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Yes, it's true ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           wrong question            01/01/70 00:00      

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