??? 02/26/09 18:23 Read: times |
#162903 - Feedback Responding to: ???'s previous message |
But the way you teach new things is by use of feedback.
The feedback is what allows the step size (or pace or starting point) to be adjusted to the students level. A student who do not supply any feedback will either suffer wild oscillations where the level of the answers will fill a huge span and be more and more unrelated to the task. Or the lack of feedback will result in a total stop of suggestions. Or end up with suggestions that are not understood and wont be explained in better detail. This thread contains a suggestion about a ring buffer, followed by feedback in the form of a question what that is. A description followed and was ended with a "Thanks....I am now easy with it......No more problems" acknowledge. First way later in the thread are there indications that the OP did not understood the circular buffer concept, but at that state there are other issues that needs answering. The thread sees a question that the text flickers and asks for suggestion how to solve. No feedback if the flicker was with code using a ring buffer or not. No feedback how the LED matrix was connected or how the code tried to decide what to show or how it sent out the data to the matrix. This lack of stimuli to the thread makes it nearly impossible to help. My suggestion was to clip to viewport, i.e. only worry about the characters that fits the display and not spend CPU time with characters to the left and right. No information if the three characters was processed because the OP wanted to simulate the existence of a 80x8 LED panel or if the change from 1->2 and from 2->3 was when the OP only tried to emit data to a single 8x8 block. That makes it impossible to deduce if the problem is converting from a character to the corresponding bitmap or if the problem is emitting a bitmap to the diodes or both or even something else. The OP then got the suggestion to write the fastest possible loop that just emits data and figure out how much time that loop will take for each diode. That should tell the OP the absolutely minimum requirements would be for the processor to manage. The response was "Any other suggestions". So Erik noted that "Any other suggestions" was a bit short and quick rejection and maybe a little motivation should be added why the OP didn't think it meaningful to test how fast it was possible to emit pixels. Then we where suddenly back to the circular buffer. At this point in thread, it didn't feel meaningful to expand on the circular buffer since a circular buffer is something that is only meaningful to use if you are already able to emit pre-computed data at high speed. Without feedback, we don't know. But we can guess that there is problems already at the output stage. Suggestsions how to improve not possible, since there is no information to work on. The description what the code does or connection information, ... So the thread deadlocks since the suggestion to test the output speed was ignored with the unqualified "Any other suggestions". Ignoring the circular buffer technique and just converting character maps to a bitmap and then emit the bitmap is ok. I use that technique myself. But the important thing is: How many characters/s can I process when building the bitmap, and how many bits/s can I send out to the LEDs. If both figures are good enough, then there is no problem to continue looking into. But in this case, no single description anywhere in the thread does mention that the OP have spent time figuring out the speed of the two steps. And no information what the code looks like. So without feedback, it is impossible to say if any of the two stages can (or need to) be rewritten to be faster. Improvement comes from feedback. The number of people who will help suggesting improvements also follows from the amount of feedback there is. In this case, we know that the display is expected to have 80x16 LED, and is expected to scroll (but we do not know if just one line at a time should scroll or if both lines should scroll or if the text should just scroll when too long to fit...) We know that a character is 8x8 (making 10 characters fit at a time) and we know that the maximum message length is 50 characters. And we know that the OP would like to send the code to someone who rewrites it to be fast - which can't even be done since there are so many things we do not know about. We don't even know how the display is electrically connected to the processor. We don't know if it is using shift registers or addressable latches or other logic. In the end, problems are best solved in small steps. But it takes feedback to identify these steps. And it takes feedback to catch errors when trying to solve these small steps. If you use an OP in an auduio amplifier and then remove the feedback loop, the OP will not be able to do a reasonable job. People who want help must (!) supply feedback. The quality of the language isn't so important, but the feedback is vital. A person who do not post "I do not understand" will be stuck. A person who asks for new suggestions before responding to previous suggestions will stop getting suggestions. In this case, every attempted branch in this thread ends up with a: "Branch dead because of lack of feedback". There is no need (and should not be any need) for people who ask questions on forums to be good at what they are doing. The whole reason for forums is to let people get help from other people who happens to know more about a specific subject. But this requires motivations. Not: "I need xxx", but motivations, "I want to solve xx and thought that if I do xx I would gain the benefit of". And all through the thread, there will be a need for: "The missing information is that I have connected ..." or "But if I do like that, wouldn't I ..." or "Sorry, but now you have lost me completely" or "Can you explain that again in some other way?" ... The quality of the language isn't important since this isn't a language school and most do not have english as their main language. But the requester must still try to formulate descriptions of what they try to do, how they try to do it, why they selected that solution, why/where they need help etc. People who fail this may be very nice people. But they will fail to get the help since it really isn't possible to help without feedback and motivations and descriptions. I can often select several different methods to get a job done in an acceptable way. But which method should I suggest if someone asks? It is often not meaningful to take the time and enumerate and describe all possible solutions. In the end, I will probably give one suggestion. Based on feedback I may decide that another solution would fit the OP better. Without feedback, I would just switch to another thread. How to teach children to swim? If I see a boy run into a pool, swim 10 meters under the water and then try to rip the pants of a friend I wouldn't spend too much extra time keeping an eye on him. If I see someone with stiff steps walk towards the stairs and then hold onto the railings with white knuckles, I would make sure I stayed close in case I'm needed. But this is visual feedback. Without live-view, we need textual feedback. Anyone know how many times I have used the word "feedback" in this post? :) |