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???
03/11/12 15:42
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#186579 - Sure
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Kai Klaas said:
Joseph said:
It's brilliant in its simplicity.

Of course, it is. But the realization is very very expensive!

It's a trade off between precision and cost.

The cheapest solutions aren't too expensive. If living with maybe 10% error after calibration, the Polar chain tension solution has a quite acceptable price.

The solutions with sensors in hub, pedal axis or cranks most definitely have a higher price. Not because they are rocket science but because of the few potential customers.

I guess for someone who needs the power measurement only when going uphill the sigma thingy will be good enough and, it's about ten times cheaper!

But then it's basically enough to use a GPS. No need to buy a bike computer that presents a wild guess.

People who do pay for a power meter aren't interested in potential energy. They are interested in amount of work the body does. Especially as balanced to the work their heart does. Matching output power to heart rate gives a very good indication of training level. Or which rpm (cadence) that the specific person have the highest efficiency - best power output in relation to pulse.

But when not going uphill the power "measurement" of the sigma will be plain bogus.

Which is a reason why it is sold to "hobbyists" because it is cool. But does not bring anything to the table for people trying to optimize their training.

About friction: Riding with too little tyre pressure can totally ruin your day!!

Most definitely. But a race bike would get into lots of other issues quite quickly at too low tyre pressure. The surface area is minimal - less than the size of a thumb print for each tyre. Only a very high air pressure will manage to keep the tyre away from the rim if you hit a stone or hole in the asphalt. So while people on city bikes may run around with really low tyre pressure for comfort, no sane person steps on a race bike without tyres almost hard as stone.

There have also been quite a lot of improvements in the material and goves of the bike tyres to reduce the roll losses while still maintain the require friction when cornering on wet surfaces. By the way - bike tyres can get a quite "interesting" look after a couple of too hard turns in combination with a bit of sand. If they slip just a bit, they get a flat part on left or right side that will then grow larger and more market as each rotation produces extra wear where the tyre is a bit flat.

But the thing is that friction losses from tyres etc are most important at low speeds. The square factor from the wind drag will quickly make it the #1 factor. Next thing is that after the bike have been bought, it's only the riding style (where on the road, where behind another rider and how to sit) that the rider can change to affect the friction losses. So it isn't too important to try to measure the actuall loss between tyre/ground or in the hubs. It's enough that the manufacturers cares about those issues.

List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
bikey design challenge            01/01/70 00:00      
   Only 400W?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Its a bit different on the road            01/01/70 00:00      
         Brilliant idea in the bath            01/01/70 00:00      
            Might work            01/01/70 00:00      
               well...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  So you are yourself saying 400W is a bit low max scale            01/01/70 00:00      
                     O.K then 500 watts            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Battery            01/01/70 00:00      
            Fun with strain gauges            01/01/70 00:00      
         You sure?            01/01/70 00:00      
   nice ride            01/01/70 00:00      
      fanks            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sigma Rox 9.1...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sigma fake            01/01/70 00:00      
         What do you expect for that price?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Head or tail wind? Or riding in a group or alone?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Way overcomplicating this            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Sensors            01/01/70 00:00      
                     how indeed            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Wrong - you are totally missing the drag factor            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not at all.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Real manufacturers haven't found your idea simple...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Point made            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Some of your points are just wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Sounds like you expect an infinite acceleration            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Repeat post Ignore            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I try for a constant power            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Crank rpm - not back wheel rpm            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I got the two confused            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Bandwidth + return channel            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Oh dear, so many variable constants            01/01/70 00:00      
                  rocket science            01/01/70 00:00      
                     So don't ignore them            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Of course, it is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           wireless            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Costs...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 cost            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Another problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       This was addressed earlier            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Multiple strain gauges            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Competitive bicycling            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Pulse            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                If I had the power meter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Normalizing with heart beats cancels some errors            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Just to get some data to look at            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Jez ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Oh Noes!!!!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            The plan is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Brum doesn't HAVE mountains            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Ah yes but no but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Actualy...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   If I had a power meter...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Ive been testing things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Well, no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            all very well thank you Steve            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Getting nasty            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  nasty ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 More time than money if access to machinery            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Strain gauge elastic fixtures            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Sure            01/01/70 00:00      

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