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???
03/10/12 19:38
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#186563 - Head or tail wind? Or riding in a group or alone?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Kai Klaas said:
Going uphill the error shall be less than 5%...

Kai Klaas

But what about the error in all other situations. Such as going alone against a strong wind?

There are at least competitors who do have a wind sensor.

The Sigma is just a ploy. Price doesn't matter much if a device isn't even in the race.

If the goal is feedback for training, then a Polar pulse meter with height meter (so evaluating ascent/descent) or a pulse meter with a GPS will manage just as well - even if they don't have menu setting to display "power". What they can do is compute the intensity based on pulse. Or based on speed in relation to height difference. And the second thing is basically the same as the Sigma displays. It's just a question of adding in a constant to translate from a fictive training intensity into a Watt measure.

But any system that does not contain real sensors will fail badly with wind. And wind is the #1 factor for biking. With the exception of mountain climbs, we would move around like rockets if it wasn't for the wind resistance. At 30 km/h, you have about 80W wind resistance. At 40 km/h, it's about 180W. At 50 km/h it's about 350W. Actual figures obviously depending on true size of rider, how aerodynamic the gear is, seating position, ... And ignoring all other losses. Friction tyre/ground, or in bearings or chain. Or the amount of energy needed to go uphill.

But the interesting thing is of course how quickly the wind resistance increases with speed, which makes a simulation like the Sigma fail badly if there is a 10 km/h headwind or tailwind. At 40km/h it would overestimate the power with 100W or underestimate it with 170W. If just having 2m/s wind, the error would be about -80 to +120 W at 40km/h.

What makes this even more important? How would the Sigma know if you are riding alone or in the front of the pack. Or if you have a comfortable ride behind someone? The difference is huge.

So I repeat it again - the Sigma is just a ploy.

If basing the training on the pulse measurements, you would at least get a direct feedback from the wind or where you are in the group. The goal with power meter must be to get a better feedback on amount of work done. Not worse.

List of 61 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
bikey design challenge            01/01/70 00:00      
   Only 400W?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Its a bit different on the road            01/01/70 00:00      
         Brilliant idea in the bath            01/01/70 00:00      
            Might work            01/01/70 00:00      
               well...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  So you are yourself saying 400W is a bit low max scale            01/01/70 00:00      
                     O.K then 500 watts            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Battery            01/01/70 00:00      
            Fun with strain gauges            01/01/70 00:00      
         You sure?            01/01/70 00:00      
   nice ride            01/01/70 00:00      
      fanks            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sigma Rox 9.1...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Sigma fake            01/01/70 00:00      
         What do you expect for that price?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Head or tail wind? Or riding in a group or alone?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Way overcomplicating this            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Sensors            01/01/70 00:00      
                     how indeed            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Wrong - you are totally missing the drag factor            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not at all.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Real manufacturers haven't found your idea simple...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Point made            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Some of your points are just wrong            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Sounds like you expect an infinite acceleration            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Repeat post Ignore            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I try for a constant power            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Crank rpm - not back wheel rpm            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I got the two confused            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Bandwidth + return channel            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Oh dear, so many variable constants            01/01/70 00:00      
                  rocket science            01/01/70 00:00      
                     So don't ignore them            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Of course, it is...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           wireless            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Costs...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 cost            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Another problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       This was addressed earlier            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Multiple strain gauges            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Competitive bicycling            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Pulse            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                If I had the power meter            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Normalizing with heart beats cancels some errors            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Just to get some data to look at            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Jez ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Oh Noes!!!!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            The plan is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Brum doesn't HAVE mountains            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Ah yes but no but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Actualy...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   If I had a power meter...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Ive been testing things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Well, no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            all very well thank you Steve            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Getting nasty            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  nasty ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 More time than money if access to machinery            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Strain gauge elastic fixtures            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Sure            01/01/70 00:00      

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