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???
02/23/12 12:34
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#186155 - Reset versus power cycle
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Christoph said:
Famous example of a watchdog saving the day: Mars Pathfinder. It's hard to send someone to hit the reset button on a device that's located on another planet.

Are you sure that a watchdog solved the problem? Or was it a simple clock which periodically turned-off and turned-on the power supply?

A disadvantage of a watchdog that only provides a reset is, that it cannot recover circuitry from typical lock-up. Only a full power-down followed by a power-up can help then. So, a better watchdog would provide a power-down and power-up cycle, instead of a simple reset. This could be combined with a very well defined power-up Vcc slew rate, which is essential for many todays µC. They get problems if Vcc rises too slow or too fast. The power-down and power-up cycle could also guarantee that Vcc goes down to 0V, which is also essential for many todays µC.

Christoph said:
However, even if software and hardware were perfect and both bug-free, they'd still be operating in the less-than-perfect real world. There are external events that you cannot shield your device from (cosmic rays, radioactive decay of the atoms inside your shielding, etc.), or the amount of shielding required for complete immunity would conflict with the requirements specification

These discussions always suffer from the different point-of-views of people and the somewhat different experience they have in this area. If you tell me, that you zapp with an ESD-gun to the µC's port lines and the part lock-ups all the time, then I would not recommend you the use of the internal watchdog, because then there's a high probability, that the watchdog locks-up as well. In such an application it would make way more sense to immunize the port lines by ESD filters, wouldn't it?

This does not mean, that a watchdog is always useless, of course. I do have it in my circuits too, because I HOPE that it might be useful in some instances. But if I have the chance to immunize the circuit by proper filtering, shielding and grounding, of course, I will go this way (and still have the watchdog...).

And yes, you are totally right, when you say, that filtering, shielding and grounding cannot solve all problems.

Kai Klaas


List of 44 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Pointless watchdog?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Sounds Like From What You Said...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Didn't want to point fingers.            01/01/70 00:00      
         A?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Don't forget AVR            01/01/70 00:00      
               One more argument ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Independently testable            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Slow but critical.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                           ESD            01/01/70 00:00      
                               You can't            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 You can...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    But emi-filter, overvoltage protection etc may not be enough            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       ESD ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It's not just ESD, it's "the works"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I do not trust the watchdog...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                The simpler, the more trustworthy.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Less complex does not mean less probable to fail!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   WDT and debug breadcrumbs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Lightning strikes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   A watchdog should never be needed - but should be there            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   A watchdog isn't a fuse...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      correction            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I just can not agree with that reasoning            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Oh please, don't...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            so?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Why you need a watchdog            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   And even if you had perfect software and hardware ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Reset versus power cycle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Mars Pathfinder            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         many modern chips            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            The problem with bidirectional reset pins.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               The uC in question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Latchup            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               ONLY clocked circuits?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  That kitchen exhaust fan ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            link...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Sales talk            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   certified applications            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Using external watchdog            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's a feature, actually.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Wet            01/01/70 00:00      
   Featuritis...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Looking at it from another perspective            01/01/70 00:00      

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