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???
10/16/09 19:00
Modified:
  10/16/09 19:00

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#169808 - I'm not so sure it's that narrow ...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Per Westermark said:
Richard Erlacher said:
If it's a hardware problem, it should include a schematic. If that's not there, there's no point in posting it. If it's listed as a firmware problem, it should included a code listing. If it doesn't, there's no point in posting it.

But your definition is basically limited to the special case when someone have f..d up. People may have trouble understanding some sections of a datasheet. Then it is impossible to decide if we should consider configuration bits as belonging to firmware, or if the actions these configuration bits performs is part of hardware.

Is it? The fair assumption is that one posting a query has (a) thoroughly read and understood the datasheet or made a specific inquiry about a definition, most of which would easily be resolved by a search, and (b) made some preliminary decisions about requirements, available development tools, programming methodology, etc.

If someone wants to build a battery charger, they may want a general discussion about how they should supervise dV or dT or how to measure current etc. Is it firmware or hardware? In what way would a battery charger involve an 805x? In what way would an 805x become involved in monitoring dV or dT or measuring current. Isn't that stuff normally done with an oscilloscope?

It can quite often be hard to differentiate the two.

The reason why I have been discussing a forum for "general hardware" was just to make some EE people stay on the forum, even if they are considering switching away from 8051 chips. Then they can still discuss the general concept of using an analog output or PWM. Or considerations when using a ground plane. Or what to think about with cabling, transceivers etc if running serial data at Mbit++.


If "EE people" are deciding whether to switch away from 805x core chips, they should be visiting the sites that they think will provide them with the information they need. Which 805x-core MCU would you consider capable of "Mbit++" serial communication, aside from the ones specifically intended for Ethernet? Erik Malund seems to have concluded that 805x serial communication tops out at 480-something kbps.

That's one thing that's disturbed me about YOUR posts. You seem to think this is a general discussion forum for whatever you happen to want to discuss. For me, if I want to know about ARM or any other non-805x-core MCU, I go to a different site to discuss it. I certainly don't attempt to promote "BIG" processor cores here, nor do I advocate for "small" cores elsewhere.

I have advocated for integration of 805x soft-cores with specialized hardware, since programmable logic is a reasonable vehicle vehicle in which to do that, though only when no reasonably priced alternative presents itself. The reason, I feel, that this is a good path is that the 805x instruction set is so well adapted to microcontroller sorts of tasks.

As I've often said, microprocessors and microcontrollers were conceived as a replacement for lots of digital logic. The fact that they can behave as computers in the sense that comp-sci students are taught is purely incidental. It's important, but it's nice, though not necessary. That, of course, is not everyone's position, and I recognize that.

RE


List of 64 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Would separate Hard/Firm/Soft-ware sections help?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Perhaps we should revisit this notion            01/01/70 00:00      
      problems with the development tools            01/01/70 00:00      
         That's not what I meant ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      What is firmware and hardware before you have started?            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'm not so sure it's that narrow ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Shades of gray            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's an analog world ... that means shades of grey            01/01/70 00:00      
                  But a large number of posters will guess            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Haven't you heard that saying ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Looking for lights            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Where you sit determines what you see            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Richard in grumpy mode            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I know why...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I doubt that's the case.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       You make a big mistake!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Show examples            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Oh Per, you are so self-satisfied...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Show examples. Tell what we can do different. Don't invent.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Per, somehow I think,...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    can't be both            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I don't think so!            01/01/70 00:00      
   NO            01/01/70 00:00      
   No            01/01/70 00:00      
      apparently too "week" to afford a spell/syntax checker            01/01/70 00:00      
   hardware or software?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Neither, Either, or Both            01/01/70 00:00      
      It's not the precision of the category, but the thought            01/01/70 00:00      
   It might be an idea...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Then again            01/01/70 00:00      
   CPLD/FPGA, etc            01/01/70 00:00      
      The boundaries are blurring, aren't they?            01/01/70 00:00      
         That one's been blurred for many years!            01/01/70 00:00      
            That's not the point ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Unfortunately not            01/01/70 00:00      
                  hitting the nail on the head            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Follows from volume and knowledge            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Well, maybe a pre-post examination is needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Maybe quite meaningful after all.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Ask yourself, "Whom are we trying to help?"            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Already have            01/01/70 00:00      
                              That's unfortunately true!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 This is a problem with the Internet as a whole            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Indexed info is good, but costs time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       It's tradeoff ... quality vs. quantity            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Many posters looks for solutions to the wrong problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             not 'normally' but 'always'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Isn't that the best way to learn?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Definitely not!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                referring to responses you made in the past            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Ehm, do you really think...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   not exactly            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      so YOU know what is 'realistic'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Depends            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Your point is certainly valid            01/01/70 00:00      
   Another problem in forums that have multiple areas            01/01/70 00:00      
      Is that a problem in a moderated forum?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Amount of moderator work            01/01/70 00:00      
            Maybe, but we could let YOU do the work            01/01/70 00:00      
               be real            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Quality tends to drop with time            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I agree ... it would "lose its luster" over time            01/01/70 00:00      
         That's the catch            01/01/70 00:00      
            Maybe it's not such a big "catch"            01/01/70 00:00      

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