Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
04/30/07 16:40
Read: times


 
#138319 - I think you misquoted me
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Erik Malund said:
SOMEONE (Richard, get it right) said Consuming less power would be the first approach, and in many cases amount to mere inconvenience..
Erik Malund said:
why "mere inconvenience", why not better designs?.
Richard, asks
'We're waiting for you to come up with one."
and answers himself by quoting me:
"why "mere inconvenience", why not nuclear power?."

as to 'better designs" there are two sides

a) more efficient power generation (see above) and

b) less energy use.
As far as an example of me "coming up with one" I can not, single handed, come up with a "better design" of a PC operating system, but the latest Gatesian emission is, in the respect of energy use, a disaster requiring twice (if not more) PC performance and Michael Dell and compatrriots can not give you twice the performance without using more electricity. This is a typical example of the obnoxious attitude in some camps "software harms no one".

Erik


You're on the right track, and nuclear energy would be a potential interim "fix" for the current dilemma. However, at least in the U.S, there are problems as pointed out in that movie I cited. Nuclear facilities have at least one drawback, and that's that when they're not built properly, they pose a major health risk to everyone within 1000 km.

During my short time as a project engineer, responsible, among other things, for quality control on substantial municipally funded public works projects, I noted that officials who would never have been tempted by the $5000 bribe, routinely compromised away quality ultimately costing the taxpayers many tens of thousands of dollars in exchange for a bottle of liquor and a slap on the back.

This isn't the same as corruption in other countries, in some of which the government officials simply see bribes as part of their entitled compensation for their underpaid jobs. It does, however, pose a much more serious risk, in that, once an official is involved, he has to do all the same things he'd have done to conceal having accepted a bribe and provided quid pro quo. The resulting behaviors and practices, however, indicate a tremendous risk to the public when a huge power plant powered by extremely toxic products is involved.

Then, of course, there's the matter of the power wasted in the distribution grid. The only real way to mitigate the global warming crisis is to tackle the global warming, not just from the standpoint of mitigating greenhouse gas emissions, but also by mitigating the warming itself that human activity causes. What electrical/mechanical/chemical processes do you bring about every day that cause waste energy to be given off as heat? Loss of those processes would be inconvenient, but devising ways of avoiding energy waste as heat would probably not be so inconvenient. Does anyone even bother with that.

What's the ratio of power generated at the power plant to power delivered to the end user? What's the ratio of power delivered to work done?

If energy conservation is purportedly being encouraged, why do large users and wasters of energy have to pay less per kWH than small users?

I think big-energy is selling us a bill of goods.

RE






List of 346 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
I was talking to someone today            01/01/70 00:00      
   Man-made global warming            01/01/70 00:00      
      Nonetheless            01/01/70 00:00      
         Arthur C Clarke            01/01/70 00:00      
            since Richard misunderstood me            01/01/70 00:00      
               it is clean, safe and zero emissions            01/01/70 00:00      
                  It implies distribution of electric power ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     You dismiss this further down...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Yes, but your presentation is irrelevant!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Prove it.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It\'s obvious!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Anybody need a coach for their debate team?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Well, Rob, YOU voted for him, didn\'t you?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Huh?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Zero Emission mythos            01/01/70 00:00      
                     you missed the biggie            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Touché!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        That wouldn't be an issue if it were done right!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Business Electric Rates            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Good for them!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 BALONEY made from horsefeathers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What courage?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     No ... the batteries will be lithium types            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Not enough lithium            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Wikipedia for one            01/01/70 00:00      
                              65 ppm?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Elaborate            01/01/70 00:00      
            the real solution ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               You can see the weather changing its true            01/01/70 00:00      
               What an excellent idea!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  You'll probably get your wish, but why rush it?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Stewardship            01/01/70 00:00      
               Stewardship            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Basic point.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Basic counterpoint            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Says who ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        ... so you WOULD defaecate in your living room?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I do not know if this modern convenience called a            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I think the real problem is ...free hot water            01/01/70 00:00      
                     hot hot heat            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Some people heat their houses with that hot water!            01/01/70 00:00      
                        In Reykjavik, Iceland, they all, do.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Stewardship\'s for somebody else, right?            01/01/70 00:00      
         CO2            01/01/70 00:00      
            Dosis sola venenum fecit.            01/01/70 00:00      
               SIze isn't everything            01/01/70 00:00      
            What about cyanide in your drinking water?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Degrees.            01/01/70 00:00      
         Sources please.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Sure, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Excellent references            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Historic data.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Historical scales            01/01/70 00:00      
                        is THIS a reason?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           what emit the most CO2?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              on a similar tone...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 what do you prefer?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    more emissions            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I use both            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yes, it is a reason            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Wrong Pollutants            01/01/70 00:00      
                              perfectly good reason to expunge the offender            01/01/70 00:00      
                           there's another issue ... the elephant in the room            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 It's a balance issue ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Come on            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Planck's law...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       And            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Oops!            01/01/70 00:00      
      If it's concensus, it isn't spelled correctly!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Regardless of the source, if it's a problem            01/01/70 00:00      
      to be honest...            01/01/70 00:00      
         When I was a boy ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Whatever            01/01/70 00:00      
               Ice Age?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Not that hot yet            01/01/70 00:00      
            Now I'm confused.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Take your pick ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      The Big Ball in The SKY            01/01/70 00:00      
         Gonna get warmer, with or without us            01/01/70 00:00      
            Sunspot.            01/01/70 00:00      
               I rest my case.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Visiting            01/01/70 00:00      
   It's all about $$$$$$$$            01/01/70 00:00      
      Can you provide even one example?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Intuition            01/01/70 00:00      
            the truth tends to be in the middle            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes it can hurt.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  For those interested.... a good website            01/01/70 00:00      
                     and a good video            01/01/70 00:00      
                  (OT): I don't understand...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Complete backfire            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Ah, so....            01/01/70 00:00      
            Perhaps, but also ...            01/01/70 00:00      
               More like the kettle calling the pot a pot.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  let us get a few things straight ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Oh sigh            01/01/70 00:00      
                        vhemt.org            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Density            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Evidence            01/01/70 00:00      
                     "scientific" evidence            01/01/70 00:00      
                        You know what evidence is            01/01/70 00:00      
                           If you want            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Note that "wackos" is spelled correctly!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
            No            01/01/70 00:00      
            under the influence            01/01/70 00:00      
               Percentage vs Absolute Value            01/01/70 00:00      
                  That\'s the point            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Richard, do you even trust yourself?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I don't know whom to trust ... perhaps nobody            01/01/70 00:00      
         One example            01/01/70 00:00      
            the converse            01/01/70 00:00      
            Horsefeathers!            01/01/70 00:00      
      and power            01/01/70 00:00      
         Mmh, I'd like to see some sources.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Wate vapor            01/01/70 00:00      
               proportions again            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Whatever            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Acute vs. chronic.            01/01/70 00:00      
               Differences.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Strange            01/01/70 00:00      
                     H20 vs. CH4 vs. CO2.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Since you like to type...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Timescales.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              There are short term effects too            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I am aware            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Obscure scientists            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Talking of carbon footprints            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Pb-free            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    How it relates to global warming            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       re global warming            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       what???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Angry and scared.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Logic problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Since you quoted me...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Mandates ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   States rights            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      And, and...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Revenue of course...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                nuclear?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   ridiculous?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Not quite wasteless.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Neutron activation            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      this is not the case            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         fusion is easy!!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   nuclear\'s not much better ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      radiation            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Hyperbole            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             the EPA            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       mentalist            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    consumerism            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Cost of CO2 removal from a coal power plant            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          And that's exactly ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Why babble about unnecessary inconveniences,            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Why do you think nuclear is clean?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   how much CO2 does it generate? ZERO            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   recycling is automatic            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Inconveniences.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                not inconvenient for me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   what are you waiting for            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I think you misquoted me            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Nope            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Nonsense!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Disagree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  What makes you so important?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Sigh            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Corruption            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           The fish ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        is this a "red herring"? "Everybody does it."            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Oh ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Where you sit determines what you see ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 the top creature            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Russian 'imitation' cognac, I hope            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       maybe inadequate translation?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Reasons            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Did you notice the jump in gasoline prices?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       now we know what you reelly want            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          hate to tell you this eric            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Tax            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             What susidies?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                consider the 1 mil/kilobuck ratio of oil-leases            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             No subsidies            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                You don't serously believe that, do you?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   Please            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   Oil companies?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                      It's an accounting trick ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                         Basis of opinion            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            agenda? no ... I just like to argue ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                         re:taxes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            They're just trying to make a buck.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            Not manipulation, market            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                               Reality vs. theory            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                  Close, but not quite.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                     Hm .. ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                        Not sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           East of Fallon            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           MPG            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                              maybe?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           It\\\'s a bit hidden, but I found it ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                              Also            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                        Back Yards            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                     re:nimby            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                        Exxon            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                               re:oil            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                  BP            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            So how big is your gas tank ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                               cheaper gas            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                  Good for you.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                     OT - Octane rating            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                        Diesels ??            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           Try imports.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           One's a truck...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                        I know.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                                           I somewhat recall - a long tim,e ago            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          I once had a girlfriend ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       Response            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          If you\'re a gambling man ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Continuing on            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Yes, Richard, man is evil            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                I can't remember that far back ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 What do you see?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               What corruption?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Those are all minor examples            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Automobiles "have at least one drawback"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            And all it took was ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Hindsight's always 20/20            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  hindsight????            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     but that's where the nuke debacles have occurred            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         to Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            CPUs            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            I knew that would come up ... ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               You are beginning to scare me Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  I'm an animal lover            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     yep ... me too ... and on an ATV at 1000 yards            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Yup ... there's only one animal I don't like ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Engineering 101...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            That's what proves the fools are running things            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               My point...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  A few corrections ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          particularly since transport is the lion's share            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Nature            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Can you name ONE human act of benefit to the earth            01/01/70 00:00      
                              triangle, shmiangle            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Daylight Savings            01/01/70 00:00      
               Oh, you ring a bell there            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Its only just becoming apparent            01/01/70 00:00      
         and what are these conditions?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Synthesis            01/01/70 00:00      
               the relationship between energy, money and ecology            01/01/70 00:00      
               also an interesting related wikipedia article            01/01/70 00:00      
         Hot ?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Geologist pokes his head in here...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Sci Fi            01/01/70 00:00      
               Read it back in college            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Freon            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Effects.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        re:freon            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Convection.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Just like ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Freon at the South Pole            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Because ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              re:convection            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 No studies ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 This should show you guys ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Disagree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       We'll never know who's right            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          "Net benefit"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Right            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       The religion of economy.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          So you theorize            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Actually            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Uhm            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             a noble thought, but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Save the starving            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Data.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Ok, see above            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   CoolBiz            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Held off?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I wouldn't worry            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Big lies            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             "Natural"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Definition            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Heheh            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   inorganic food            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Carbonaceous?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                It stems from human huberis            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             it's not self-loathing            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Why ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I wouldn\'t attribute that to \"fun\"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Here pussy pussy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Speak for yourself, Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   When was the last time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      what is "environment"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         it is the same thing that people do            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Pre-historic oxygen levels            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Nature's balance            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      not a bacteria, but            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       It's a religious issue for you gross-polluters            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Nobody\'s going to switch sides ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I know...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Well, that wasn't my goal.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Another class            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   You've been brainwashed!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Vested interests            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Consequences ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Socialism            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         It's time to reconsider.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            No evidence            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               It's like I said ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            echo            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Suspicions.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Two points            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Commons            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Commons            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Commons            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Rabbits in Canada            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Population dynamics            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Tragedy of unregulated commons.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Okay            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Freon            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Freon conspiracy            01/01/70 00:00      
   This just in...80% reduction needed...            01/01/70 00:00      
      worked too            01/01/70 00:00      
      I missed something            01/01/70 00:00      
         Iron in the ocean            01/01/70 00:00      
            Ocean anywhere            01/01/70 00:00      
               Iron inthe Oceans            01/01/70 00:00      
                  while it may have been in a book            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Try "SOFeX"            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Take up ?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Credit where credit is due...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Getting clse thoughe            01/01/70 00:00      
         Editorial control            01/01/70 00:00      
   the stupidest way to do things            01/01/70 00:00      
      Tax !            01/01/70 00:00      
         Somebody please throw some brains ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   the REAL problem            01/01/70 00:00      
      the people who brainwashed me can spell!            01/01/70 00:00      
         maybe not            01/01/70 00:00      
            They're behind on their washing ... and so am I            01/01/70 00:00      
               well this is TOTALLY off topic, but anyhow            01/01/70 00:00      
                  So you're a costco shopper too, eh?            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List