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07/23/06 17:02
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#120882 - I used to
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Richard Erlacher said:
I've long been a follower of the "doom and gloom" school of economics.


I used to believe that stuff, too. Not so much anymore.

These guys successfully predicted the $2/gal price of unleaded regular, and they successfully predicted the $3/gal price. They've projected the further increase in the price, and, of course, they've concluded that it will be plenty high enough to warrant buying a car with gas in it when yours runs out of gas, once the pump price exceeds six figures, which it will do sooner than anyone anticipated, simply because of the rapid decline in the value of the US$.


Are these guys predicting a boom on the order of 5 orders of magnitude in the cost of gas, or are they predicting a complete collapse of the U.S. dollar? Neither seems probable to the degree of 5 orders of magnitude.

The mean price of food has gone up by over 10% around here in the past year because so little food is produced locally that everything is trucked in from elsewhere, all of which costs considerably more to transport. This will continue until, finally, people stop driving those large, gas-guzzling pickup trucks and "sport-utility" vehicles when a motor scooter would meet their need.


People will start using bikes and scooters long before gas costs $100k a gallon. Gas will rise to the price people, collectively, are willing (and able) to pay. And not a penny more. $100k is far more than anyone is willing or able to pay.

The guys who so accurately predicted the jump in the price of gasoline have predicted $5 within the next year or two (depending on which one you ask) and $15 within the decade, with the panic-driven price rising exponentially.


I might believe $5/gallon, but seriously doubt $15. Demand for gas will collapse before then. Going from $2 to $3 might mean a change in monthly cost from $160/month to $240/month for the average budget. That's annoying, but manageable for most people. But going from $3 to $15 is a monthly cost jumping from $240/month to about $1200/month. Very few people will be able to absorb a $1000/month increase in gas, demand will collapse, and gas prices will fall to the price that people are willing and able to pay.

The supply of petroleum is finite. The demand in the U.S. is not. The obvious result will be a steep increase in price until it does impact demand. As it stands, before the end of the next decade, by which time this electric car will be warranted at $5E7 because of the price of gasoline, only a hundred or so people in the U.S. will be able to afford to drive one. They will own all the housing, all the food production capability, and all the rest of us will be out on the street with our guns, hunting one another for food.


Nonsense. A rich person can only stay rich if others have money to spend on what they're selling. If everyone else is on the street killing each other, the rich people's wealth is unsustainable. It's not in their interest.

The price of gas and the move to nuclear energy is not an all or nothing proposition. As the price of gas increases, more and more demand will be placed on electricity and, to support that, there will be a move to nuclear energy to generate electricity and, in turn, create hydrogen for hydrogen fuel cells. There will be a gradual, not sudden, move away from gas and to nuclear-generated hydrogen fuel cells. This will also reduce demand for gas which will keep the price in check until nuclear energy is essentially 100% of our power supply and the price of gas will drop to $1E-05 rather than $1E05. When no-one needs it, it will be of no value at all.

The higher prices of gas is a much-needed motivation to invest in nuclear energy and related infrastructure and end our dependence on a limited natural resource that is not finite and for which we depend on others. The current high price of gas very likely will ultimately be a blessing, not a curse.

Regards,
Craig Steiner


List of 97 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
anyone interested?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Fancy Golf Cart?            01/01/70 00:00      
      price            01/01/70 00:00      
         If they really want to help the environment...            01/01/70 00:00      
            they claim to come out with a 'family sedan'            01/01/70 00:00      
               By that time it will be a bargain!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  ???            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not exactly ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        I used to            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Ha bloody ha.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You might change your mind            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Doubt it            01/01/70 00:00      
                           let's examine this more closely.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Have you been to Europe lately>            01/01/70 00:00      
                              respons            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I've met a few of them, too.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    So?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       look around ... it's already like that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Still disagree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Counting subsidies?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Oh yea ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I'm not sure that's true ... Russia has 'em            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Which brings us right back            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      That's why I say it's off by 7%            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Reasonable people do disagree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You don\'t have to agree, but think about it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Transformer efficiency            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Frankly, I've no idea            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   From my house I count 61 ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Who cares            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Power distribution            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            I think one of the demo teams was from Canada            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Nobody, and that\'s part of the problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            What about            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Grids            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  but would it be necessary?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               They've got all that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Grids            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     True, but not in all cases            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  assumption            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     double problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Yes, it's an assumption            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        batterys            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           not less, but more of a problem            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     That said            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        lead acid            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           who cxares about the temperature            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              at 2000 degrees F, it would melt iron            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 promising I'd say            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Faith            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       tried and failed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          ah, yes ... I remember it well ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Nixon tried price controls            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                What was price-controlled ... I don't remember.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   google for it - gas and oil among others            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       sad, but true            01/01/70 00:00      
                           any news as to the REAL solution?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE "doom and gloom"            01/01/70 00:00      
                           ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Putting the \"mental\" in environmental            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Of that there can be no doubt            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Not every acre, my friend            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Price of Gas            01/01/70 00:00      
                           The cost of the alternatives.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Over here.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Luckily            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I've been watching this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Denmark just passed 10%            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          They're a world leader in this regard            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Nuclear            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 U.S. industry is too corrupt            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    the best argument FOR nuclear energy is 3 mile isl            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       chernobyl            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Even Chernobyl            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Chernobyl and coal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                another thing to consider            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Re. Chernobyl and coal            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Name one.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Just consider our commander in chief            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Not a poor decision in their eyes            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I doubt they have brushes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 That is why nuclear generation is so appealing            01/01/70 00:00      
                        have you no Farmers market where you live ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           We used to, back when I was a "farmer"            01/01/70 00:00      
   Not a Tesla engine            01/01/70 00:00      
      Tesla turbine            01/01/70 00:00      
         It's just a name ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Possom on a Stick            01/01/70 00:00      
               Turtle tea            01/01/70 00:00      
               is that Okie spellinh            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I think Webster spells it with a leading \'O\'            01/01/70 00:00      
                     webster            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Opossum on the half shell?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Just Southern Courtesy            01/01/70 00:00      
                     How thoughful of you!            01/01/70 00:00      

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