Email: Password: Remember Me | Create Account (Free)

Back to Subject List

Old thread has been locked -- no new posts accepted in this thread
???
12/27/05 14:09
Modified:
  12/27/05 14:24

Read: times


 
#106013 - Dangerous!
Responding to: ???'s previous message
This is a typical example of a circuit which should not be built in this way!

How does it work? Or better, how is it intended to work?
Capacitor works as AC impedance to limit the current through the LEDs. Impedance of capacitance of 220nF is 1 / (2 x pi x f x C) = 1 / (2 x pi x 50Hz x 220nF) = 14.5kOhm. So, when 230VAC drops across this cap, current is limited to Ieff = 230Veff /14.5kOhm = 15.9mAeff.
The advantage of using a cap instead of a resistor is, that at cap no heat is produced. When using a resistor of 14.5kOhm instead, on the other hand, about 3.7W would be dissipated!

The big disadvantage of using a cap is, that at higher frequencies the impedance drastically lowers. So, each voltage spike on mains will result in a heavy current spike through the LEDs, which will shorten their working life.

Due to the AC character of mains, only half of the shown LEDs will shine at at time, because either the current flows from the left to the right or vice versa.

The metal oxid resistor of 100Ohm shall act as an additional current limiter for voltage spikes, when the capacitor looks like a short circuit, I guess. But assuming a spike voltage of only 100V dropping across this resistor, this will result in a current spike of terrible 100V / 100Ohm = 1A. And there are much higher voltage spikes on mains...

What is totally ridiculous, is, that this resistor shall act as a fuse. Well, I have made some tests a while ago, to find out what overstressing a simple metal film resistor (minimelf 0204) can withstand. And I can tell you, that this little beast couldn't be damaged even by excessive overcurrents! Instead of smelting of metal film, the beast first began to glim, then to shine brighter and brighter, working finally as a lamp!!
So, to make the 100Ohm/1W resistor to work as a fuse much much more than SQRT(1W / 100Ohm) = 100mA must flow!

So, not the resistor will work as a fuse, but the LEDs themselves...

What are the no nos of this circuit?
1. You are not allowed to connect standard capacitors to mains, which seem to show a sufficient nominal voltage. So, you must never connect a 400V capacitor to 230V mains!! Even a 630V cap isn't suited. Only special mains caps can be connected to mains, for instance 250V~X2-cap, which is made of a special metal paper. Only this type of cap will resist excessive overvoltages on mains, others can begin to burn!!

2. It's ridiculous to build this circuit without a suited varistor across the mains lines. Each voltage spike will enormously stress the LEDs.

3. Current limiting resistor is much too low to actually provide a current limiting. I would increase its value and bend a temperature fuse arround it, connected in series to resistor.

4. Why not spending a real fuse to this circuit, additionally to the "current limiting" resistor? Would be much better, than to trust on a burning resistor...

Kai

List of 56 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Circuit Analysis            01/01/70 00:00      
   Analysis            01/01/70 00:00      
   Dangerous!            01/01/70 00:00      
      bungling amateurs "bragging" on the web            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not electronic, but an amusing example            01/01/70 00:00      
            OLD idea ?            01/01/70 00:00      
               New and improved            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Safety first            01/01/70 00:00      
         I think you meant...            01/01/70 00:00      
         deja vu all over again!            01/01/70 00:00      
      resistor replaced by capacitor            01/01/70 00:00      
         Phase shift            01/01/70 00:00      
         dissapation            01/01/70 00:00      
            Dissipation            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's a real world after all            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What ? Make mistakes ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     are you sure            01/01/70 00:00      
                     or ..            01/01/70 00:00      
            Non ideal cap performance            01/01/70 00:00      
   Diodes!            01/01/70 00:00      
   Current Limiting Capacitor            01/01/70 00:00      
      Capacitor Filters            01/01/70 00:00      
         Some basic theory needed            01/01/70 00:00      
         12 */~2 ~ 17 so I doubt you see 19V            01/01/70 00:00      
         Output voltage            01/01/70 00:00      
            Regulation            01/01/70 00:00      
            current flow            01/01/70 00:00      
               What current?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  What iam trying to know is            01/01/70 00:00      
                     inrush current            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Naiive analysis            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Laplace Transformation            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Could be worse....            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Me too!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Minds are failing            01/01/70 00:00      
                     DC component            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Suresh, have as look            01/01/70 00:00      
                           analog and digital ground            01/01/70 00:00      
                              discussed ad nauseam do a search            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Use a splitted ground plane            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 did i got it right            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Also datasheet of ADUC can help you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Placing Vias            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Maybe..            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Copper fills            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I do not know about 2 layers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                        Auto route            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Solid ground plane has to be solid!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Thank you Kai            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                circuit for a despensing unit            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   ICM7555 + 2M2 + 6ยต8            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      why a totally unrelated post in the midd            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Separate signal traces.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 What has God to do with this??            01/01/70 00:00      
               DC DC            01/01/70 00:00      
               DC DC            01/01/70 00:00      

Back to Subject List