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???
01/26/11 16:11
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#180811 - personal experience
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Erik Malund said:
as I posted somewhere in this thread
"after decades of asm only, when forced into C it took me a decade to make it my preference"

I do believe that Jan is at the point where for him going to C will result in a temporary dip in productivity just like going from 8 teeth missing to a set of false teeth will result in a temporary dip in chewing speed.

In fact, the last 3 years I write exclusively in C (with the occasional use of asm where appropriate). Simply, this is what pays the bills, so that's what I now do. It took longer to gain the same level of confidence than to what I was used when I migrated to asm for a new processor before; say half a year vs. two months. I was not new to C, having had used it on PC for years; nor new to the AVRs which are my main target now. So the dip is now over. I don't think I am more or less productive in C than in asm; save the fact that the main project on which I am working is huge, tens of kLOC, largely inadequate to asm (and also inadequate to 8-bitters, but there are reasons why this happened so).

And I also haven't used a '51 for the same time, except of some small hobby projects. As an example, a couple of weeks ago I gave in to the complaints my wife had for years on the timing of some external lights on our house which are controlled by a '51, and had to dug into what I wrote in '51 asm 5 years ago, and I admit that it was not THAT simple ;-)


Erik said:
I truly believe that if Jan were to do 10 years of C only he would end up with C as his first choice.
I don't think so. One is certainly inclined to stick to a certain style of work, as there are costs involved in moving between styles of work. So, if you worked on a project calling for C for some reason, you will be more likely to do the next project in C even if it is slightly less adequate than asm, simply because you are already "started up" in C and don't want to move just for that one project.

Erik said:
Anyhow as it is difficult to predict, especially the future, I am not posting this as a fact, but as a thought based on the fact that many years ago I would have been an ardent supporter of Jans points.
Many years ago, you had been "set to" asm and the move to C was a barrier. I believe if we could compare your productivity in 199x using asm and in 200x using C, on the same medium-sized '51 project, we would see no significant difference.


Jan

List of 58 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
"standard syntax" of '51 assemblers            01/01/70 00:00      
   Use C            01/01/70 00:00      
      Use C - prudently            01/01/70 00:00      
         I hate C            01/01/70 00:00      
            Fight!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Time in the Trade            01/01/70 00:00      
               I'd submit that there are "gotcha's"            01/01/70 00:00      
                  The tools are better for HLL            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Gotchas!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes. Fight.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  why fight?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     that are still language-agnostic issues            01/01/70 00:00      
                        to Jan and others            01/01/70 00:00      
                           personal experience            01/01/70 00:00      
                  HLL productivity            01/01/70 00:00      
                     show me the proof            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Productivity article            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Tautologies!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What's up with that???            01/01/70 00:00      
                           interesting but irrelevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Why is that irrelevant?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I think part of the confusion stems from this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    which packages have you seen????            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       not those in recent history            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I don't think that's true?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Common that consultants have commercial compilers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Who benefits?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Why would they buy that product at all?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                So You are Niche            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          look at the link in my post above            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Technology front            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Richard doesn't exactly follow the technology front....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   and doesn't let that stop him ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Just because the paint is dry doesn't mean it won't work            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Perhaps not ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Technology front? In '51 asm?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              again ... I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 as usual, Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    all you have to do is to read the whole message            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Do you test your code?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           sure I do            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What you can do ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 sw test harness            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    I don't know about yours, but mine can do that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Why didn't you read?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Well, I have to admit ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             You are forgetting memory variables in state machines            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I think you're going over the top.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Stop and think before you write            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Footnote about code coverage            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I agree with the principle, but not with the range            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Lucky you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               where you sit determines what you see            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  when seeing too little - get a chair to stand on            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     I'm not on board with all of that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        I know, lifebuoy needed            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I have to agree            01/01/70 00:00      
            As I've often said ...            01/01/70 00:00      

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