??? 08/07/09 17:03 Read: times |
#168242 - What excuses? Responding to: ???'s previous message |
Per Westermark said:
Richard said:
I think it's much, Much, MUCH worse for a software vendor to publish a work product that is not in every testable way absolutely perfect, even if they fix it later, than for a couple of dozen thieves to steal their product in the way you describe every day. Not at all. They don't lose much money by ignoring you. They are selling to just about everyone else. Most people either buy on recommendation, or manages just fine to evaluate the compiler in the available code space. Do you seriously believe that those who'd steal a product if it were sufficiently difficult to get past the time-limiting features would ever buy the product? If they steal it, it's no loss in sales. The vendor hasn't lost a dime! OTOH, if even one prospective customer finds, after evaluating the product, finds it is what he wants, not because he's been stampeded into it, but because he's actually determined that product XYZ is more suited to his purpose than ABC, then the vendor makes a sale. Yes, there are people out there who create "cracks" just as there are people out there who create virus and other types of malware. Nothing will ever get rid of them. However, if KEIL, IAR, or others have a million copies of their software "out there" not being used by the folks who cracked it, and crackers seldom actually use the products they steal, Keil, IAR, etc, haven't lost a dime! The guys who would buy a "cracked" package seldom benefit, as the cracks are seldom without undesirable and generally catastrophic side-effects. That's why I don't know anyone who uses 'em. Next thing - a full edition that has a time limit you can tamper with can quickly reach a torrent site in which case a huge number of people will have free availability of the compiler forever. A significant percent of people would not buy what they can find for free, even if illegal. Nobody said anything about "a time limit you can tamper with." If the software guys can't figure out how to prevent such tampering, they get what they deserve. Third - you are comparing with a Solitaire game. Is the price similar? For cheap programs, I just buy. For expensive programs I first think a lot and google a lot and checks forums. I would have expected that Solitaire program to be a cheap program. The web page seems to agree: "The 725 games are only US$24.95." Are you really comparing the price model for a $25 toy program with a very expensive professional tool? I wouldn't want to spend much time to look for a cracked (and possibly virus-ridden) copy of a $25 program. I'm afraid quite a lot of people would be willing to spend significant amounts of time to get their hands on a free C51 toolchain. I just used that as an example. The price isn't the issue. I don't know how hard it would be to bypass the time-lock. However, as I said earlier, if the software guys can't do that such that it's not easy to "crack" then they get what they deserve. Richard said:
Just what has PC programming to do with the subject at hand? It can't be too hard to decode that single sentence I wrote. I just said that it is trivial to calculate timings for a 8051 in relation to more complex processors, so how can it be so hard to evaluate the compiler? It's not "hard" but it is time-consuming and burdensome, and much more so when applied to the output from a compiler. Cycle counting isn't the only valuable thing, you know. It's just of particular interest to me. Richard said:
MCU programmers should know, understand, and be able to simulate precisely the behaviors of the MCU they're using. If their compiler doesn't do that to the nearest clock cycle, it's rubbish! I don't expect I will ever see a compiler simulating a processor. Kind of wrong tool for the task ;) It's not the compiler that does that, but many compiler packages include a simulator/debugger. That's what does the cycle counting. Some don't, of course. I associate them simply because in the cases where they're included, it's unlikely one would buy the package without the simulator. It's a valuable function, particularly with the sort of impenetrably twisted code that the compiler spits out. That code isn't necessarily bad, but it's hard for humans to follow unless they have a very clear understanding of exactly what that compiler does. What tools are you using now to simulate everything down to the nearest clock cycle when you write in assembler? I still claim that the same tool (your head or whatever) should be able to evaluate with the same precision the result of the assembler instructions from the compiler. When I write ASM, I'm acutely aware of how long code segments take, and even include the cycle counts in the comments. In some cases, with MCU's that can change cycle lengths and memory access modes dynamically, e.g. the SiLabs and Maxim/Dallas one-clockers, the timing can vary considerably depending on the context from which a given code segment is instantiated. What's needed, I guess, is a REAL simulator. RE |