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???
08/04/09 18:41
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 		 #168159 - NOT engineers.....
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Andy Neil said:
For today's computer science students, learning C is like taking an elective class in Latin. But C is anything but history and not at all a dead language.


Computer scientist != engineer

Steve

List of 131 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Article: "Real engineers program in C"            01/01/70 00:00      
   C and Latin            01/01/70 00:00      
      similarities between English and C            01/01/70 00:00      
         all sorts of similarities            01/01/70 00:00      
      NOT engineers.....            01/01/70 00:00      
         I think that was his point?            01/01/70 00:00      
            I know            01/01/70 00:00      
               I also don't know if his diagram on Page 3 is right            01/01/70 00:00      
   fewer ASM developers            01/01/70 00:00      
   languages            01/01/70 00:00      
   Muscle Vs Fat            01/01/70 00:00      
      apples vs bears            01/01/70 00:00      
         Wait a minute, pilgrim!            01/01/70 00:00      
            pilgrim has arrived            01/01/70 00:00      
            Break out that DOS Computer            01/01/70 00:00      
               I do that quite often!            01/01/70 00:00      
            blame drivers            01/01/70 00:00      
               Equip them right and they seem to work ... sort-of            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Engineers and Marketing guys            01/01/70 00:00      
            jeeziz x kryst            01/01/70 00:00      
               So ... Why do you do all that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  wrong choice of word            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's just a millstone ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  re: why?            01/01/70 00:00      
      My computer _boots_ faster than that.            01/01/70 00:00      
         DMA?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Maybe it's the amount of memory            01/01/70 00:00      
         The cost of mutlitasking..            01/01/70 00:00      
         haven't any time to waste            01/01/70 00:00      
            That would be too slow!            01/01/70 00:00      
               I see no ships!            01/01/70 00:00      
               Isn't 4k plenty for a '51?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  which '51 does have that?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Erik would call those "deviates".            01/01/70 00:00      
                        nope            01/01/70 00:00      
                        pipelines, cars, and real engineers            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's also pipelined.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              then it's irrelevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                  If you can ignore those features            01/01/70 00:00      
               keeping up            01/01/70 00:00      
                  I feel your pain ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Don't see problems - see possibilities            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Do you really want to hide from reality?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Always hiding behind excuses            01/01/70 00:00      
                              What excuses?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Your excuses            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Do you directly or indirectly work for Keil?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       BULL!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I don't harbor any animosity, but I don't like being lied-to            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             you "understand well enough"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                I have to agree ... evaluation takes time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   this is where I think I'm the realist            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      If only the pieces were separately available ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I can't and would never            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            So ... Who's a simulator specialist?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               don't know, don't care            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  So why even mention it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     because someone (you?) brought it up            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Tangential Richard at work            01/01/70 00:00      
                           the pot calling the kettle black            01/01/70 00:00      
                     that's the crux            01/01/70 00:00      
                        It's a matter of realism            01/01/70 00:00      
                           well, if you do not have the time to evaluate, your points            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I have to disagree ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 no need            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    That would be an ideal fix!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  no way            01/01/70 00:00      
                     but only if we both define a project            01/01/70 00:00      
                        oh, that's no proof then...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It would be a nice idea, but how would you time it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           you did not read what I said            01/01/70 00:00      
                              implication and how to challenge it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 disassembly            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Encryption module?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    not at all            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       It's clear to see that some folks really like 'C'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          can you only like one thing?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Yes, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                you can boil steak too            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   but you don't have to do that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      but you just said            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       no praise, just not hate            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That makes sense            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          not that claim            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             again you miss 'usually', 'mostly', 'often', etc            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Not so ... exactly            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Based on what experience?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      That's not how it works            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         maintenance is a totally different issue            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         apples to pears?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            I don't need to compare/contrast apples and pears            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               The embedded world is larger than your tiny island            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   IF            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      It's all about initial hardware cost, not maintenance cost.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Value of investment            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Not Here            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Whose business?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            What do you mean by "code analysis tools"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Some important tests            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Yes, those come up in HLL, but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Memory leaks nothing to do with HLL            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Yeah, you can do that ... but it's not recommended            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           More way than one to create memory leaks            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           that is not applicable to small embedded            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Way easier to analyse non-goto code            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        and why would that be?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           General purpose languages normally allows dangers            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              You still don't get the point, Per            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Wrong question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    what view?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       and the answer is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       can be seen as a leading question            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Careful now! Some folks like Pascal for the '51            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Some things depend on your point of view            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Richard has never, ever, in his whole life implemented a bug            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              I may have written 'em, but I've never shipped 'em            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               QAC and Polyspace            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  thanks, Oliver            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     MISRA and assembly don't mix well.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        you can write FORTRAN in any language            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           I know ... but MISRA rules are explicit.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Not happy will all parts of MISRA            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Interesting discussion of MISRA C:            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Flawed but useful            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              Nested comments can produce different results            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           That's the thing with rules            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Polyspace            01/01/70 00:00      
            Also in VB            01/01/70 00:00      
               Amazing!            01/01/70 00:00      
   You really are very naughty Andy            01/01/70 00:00      

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