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Thread Closed: Became flame-war

???
04/24/08 05:52
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#153928 - Nothing I feel
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Richard Erlacher said:
Erik Malund said:
with a mask of zero any unassigned sign should respond.
the mask mask out bits not to be checked, so mask = 0 means no ID bits to be checked.

If you have worked througth the mask and match as described there will be no unassigned signs if you ever would get to a mask of zero. Thus, with correct code, there will never be a mask of zero.

Actually, by the principle of "belt, suspenders and a piece of rope" it might be an idea to do a mask = 0 at the end just to get the piece of rope used too.

Erik


Erik,

The way in which you've described your approach is not very clear from what little you've said. If you have 64 bits of address, then you have to search through a field of 2^64 (very many) or even 2^48 (still very many, though fewer) possible addresses. If you have no information about which addresses are used and which are not, which, so far, has been the case, unless some more information is necessary, then one has to poll 2^64 addresses in order to discern which ones are occupied and which are not. At the typical maximum of 8 kbps available with cheap RF links, or even the maximal 250 kbps offered under absolutely perfect conditions by, say, Zibgee hardware, that will still be in progress when the sun burns out, right?

If you simply issue a mask address, i.e. a subset of the total address range, or anything else other than a single unique address from the available range, knowing nothing about who or what is out there on your frequency band, I don't think you're going to learn much. OTOH, if your slaves can transmit at will without a "stroke" to tell them when, and uniquely, there will be lots of unintelligible traffic, which won't help much. One has to know more about the protocol. You haven't shared much. Nobody else has attempted to explain your approach, since they apparently don't recognize it either.

What intelligence do you obtain from a no-response result? How is the "mask" to be interpreted?

What sort of price range does your RF link that accommodates a ~450 kbps data rate fit? Is it in the >$5 range that the "low-cost" devices cost?



What I understand is
http://www.8052.com/forumchat/read.phtml?id=153780 . I think he isnt polling the slaves at all ? to find whos out.

Erik Malund said:

nope, it's quite fast. With the proper algorithm you can 'find', say, 64 slaves (each with a 48 bit address) in about 2 seconds. Then assign them an 8 bit 'node address'


And with RF data rate of 460k baud , that implies the RF radio layer is fighting for that result to come with some networking options selected . After the CA algorithm delievers data to master , that particular node is masked . Now as we move on the time factor keeps reducing .


Ap



List of 115 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Wireless network            01/01/70 00:00      
   assign address to each slave?(with "jumpers")            01/01/70 00:00      
      Still you wont know which is which?            01/01/70 00:00      
         pay with time            01/01/70 00:00      
            not easy            01/01/70 00:00      
            or pay with money            01/01/70 00:00      
               or pay with money - not a solution            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Inherently not simple!            01/01/70 00:00      
         you cant poll for N number of slaves            01/01/70 00:00      
             automatic            01/01/70 00:00      
               N?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  N? - any            01/01/70 00:00      
         Ho about this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            how do you propose to do that?            01/01/70 00:00      
               have a look at the picture on the website            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Obviously missing something here...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  dipswitch my butt            01/01/70 00:00      
                     it\'s pretty obvious, isn\'t it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        first - then            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Once again you're assuming facts not in evidence            01/01/70 00:00      
                              The sample is much larger now            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 example            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Yes, it is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I like that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            I Don't get it either.            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's reall not that complicated ... but ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Still not with you            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Slaves to broadcast their presence HOW?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not that difficult            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Thats fine but what if we have            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Then you really do need a database!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              you WILL get in big doo-doo            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 this is absolutely true!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You\'ll need lots of switches and lots of ports            01/01/70 00:00      
                              totally off the rocker            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 How long, at 8kbps            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Who on Earth wants to do that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       One has to set limits            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          It does not have to be manual            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             It has its "baggage"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                no "significant burden" who cares about 'simpler'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Maybe we need to bring the O/P back to reality            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      I can't tell            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         I may be slow today....            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   ARP possiblities            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Overhead - but possibly not too serious?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   You may be onto something ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      you don't get it            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         How long would it take?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            quicker than what?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Obviously there's a trick involved            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  or ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     no patent ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        With that scheme you have to skip some            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           easy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              No ... it means there's nobody at that one address            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Not an address, an address mask            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    not likely on low-cost RF            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       of course, but nobody woud dream of sending RF w/o            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          Miracle ? , I differ            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 confound it reat the stuff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        no patent ... And after slaves colliding            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           after each 'find' it get faster            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              the cheap RF links are typically            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Erik, please clarify one point            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  If one could devise a suitable RF protocol...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     the key is to know more than is known here            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        confound it can't you read            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           You're assuming facts not in evidence.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              if a response comes, your code is faulty            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 So ... how does that differ from not transmitting?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    Richard, Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       Yes, but what SHOULD happen?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       with a mask of zero any unassigned sign sho            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          What is it you are recommending, Erik?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Nothing I feel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Reading Erik's mind            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                Address+Mask - an RF twist            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   let me clarify            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                Russ, I admire your "psychic abilities'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   A refinement            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                      yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                         Starting over            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            Russ, you may very well be right            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                   Erik, that is not what was asked for!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                      whic i would have done ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                         Perhaps you\'re not aware ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                                            1) abd 2)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             NOT "mask address" but "mask AND address"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        some things you can do on the one-wire channel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Very tricky indeed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              I do not ASS U ME diddlysquat            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           It is absolutly required for my scheme            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              That is a non-starter with low-cost RF.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  sorry            01/01/70 00:00      
   OK, here's an idea            01/01/70 00:00      
      collisions avoidance ?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Surely the master needs to know its slaves?!            01/01/70 00:00      
            identifying slaves            01/01/70 00:00      
         I can not help with collisions but..            01/01/70 00:00      
   multimaster via RF            01/01/70 00:00      
      collision recovery            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not a few seconds            01/01/70 00:00      
         Listen Before Xmit            01/01/70 00:00      
            not that urban legend again            01/01/70 00:00      
               Accepted terminology            01/01/70 00:00      
            Collisions will still happen            01/01/70 00:00      
               Yes, but how will the system respond?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Listen Before Xmit ......            01/01/70 00:00      
               if slaves can "speak without being spoken to"            01/01/70 00:00      
   Perhaps you should read this article            01/01/70 00:00      
    A Better Way             01/01/70 00:00      
      There are some internal issues too            01/01/70 00:00      
         frequency hopping            01/01/70 00:00      
            frequency hopping , I have DSSS            01/01/70 00:00      

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