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???
11/19/09 06:16
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#170957 - Agreed, with caveats
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Erik Malund said:
From my experience, it's about 50% testing and 50% hoping, when selling a new product.
'hope' is not a design parameter.

But to think, that a thorough testing will automatically result in a reliable product is a painful illusion
BINGO!!!

Many do testing to "see if it works" that is a TOTAL mistake, testing shold only be done to "catch mistakes in implementing a carefully crafted design"

If the design is not "test proof" it serves no purpose to test.

That's the whole point behind "design for test." You can't test for potential failures that you haven't considered. The goal of a rigorous test regimen is to verify the behavior of your functional device under the range of conditions over which it is characterized, and, to verify that it does what you predict when those conditions are exceeded, within limits, of course. It's up to you to characterize it, too.

Of course, you should test, but if you have not designed the thingy to work unconditionally it serves no purpose to test.

Erik

Succesful testing does not prove the absence of bugs it only proves the abence of known bugs.


There's more to testing than looking for bugs in the firmware, not that searching for and finding/remediating bugs isn't a vital objective. How does the hardware behave when the power supply drops below the rated value but doesn't reach the brownout trip-point? How does it behave when the supply goes a bit too high? Does that foul up the data acquisition? How does the system behave when the suppy has 200 mV of random noise on it? What if that random noise wachses and wanes at regular intervals? How does it respond to shot noise? What about temperature changes? ... Do the relays behave as you wish when the PCB is subjected to a 3G 1.5 mm displacement (shock) at 200 millisecond intervals in bursts of 2.5 second duration every 90 seconds? Does the PCB retain its integrity? ... you get the picture ...

RE






List of 77 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
a simple 89s52 based led circuit on the breadboard            01/01/70 00:00      
   22uF?            01/01/70 00:00      
      He's probably wondering what GNG is            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yep, I also wonder.... Already edited!            01/01/70 00:00      
      yes my bad, its 22pf not uf            01/01/70 00:00      
         Lots of nice info in datasheets and application notes            01/01/70 00:00      
         your problem identified            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes...            01/01/70 00:00      
   I see no decoupling            01/01/70 00:00      
   Some hints...            01/01/70 00:00      
   similar problems when i was an infant enthusiast            01/01/70 00:00      
      NO!            01/01/70 00:00      
         a simpler solution            01/01/70 00:00      
            Of course...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Will post results in a week or soo            01/01/70 00:00      
      Maybe it is your program            01/01/70 00:00      
         How would that happen?            01/01/70 00:00      
            wandering into Enchanted Forest            01/01/70 00:00      
               about those test spec's            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Thorough testing? Often an illussion!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     testing is an illusion            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Agreed, with caveats            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Still same problem - no problem seen doesn't prove anything            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I've been saying that for years ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 for the umpteenth time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    You should learn how to spell those words you like            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       I quoted you            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Yes, but you "tracked down" nothing!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             I recall the previous occasions ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Focus on the circumstances            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   'investigation' vs 'reasoning'            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      Reasoning vs. investigation was popular for millenia            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Reasoning            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Ptolemy and Eratosthenes...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               seek to find game: facts, evidence, philisophy            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Reasoning works fine if you don't omit/ignore the evidence            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I only do what the manufacturer urged me...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Yes, Kai, you did that            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       can't you read            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          That's not what you were complaining about!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       Please read this document...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                           I read that the first time you mentioned it.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  not perfect and never perfectly debugged            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It's the difference between "good" and "good enough"            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not necessary...            01/01/70 00:00      
               Neither way fixes anything.            01/01/70 00:00      
                  it might not be 'harmless'            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Watchdog should be used for anything semicritical            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Of ourse, illjumping must not happen!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     What "depending on"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Relax, not you...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           What do you use to "pet" the dog?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              hw timer isr för watchdog kick is dangerous            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Different instructions in different parts of the code!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              why use ALE?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Why indeed?!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    The REAL problem lies in what it tells you.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       please find just one that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          the typical switcher ripple is too much            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Have you ever observed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                ... glad you asked that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Only you, Richard            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      that's not what you were asked, Erik!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Nothing much            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            We can let others conclude what they will            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 because ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 It's what the mfg tells us to use ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Problem solved!            01/01/70 00:00      
      correction            01/01/70 00:00      
      Driving car with closed eyes...            01/01/70 00:00      
         sleep driving            01/01/70 00:00      
            Of course!!!            01/01/70 00:00      
      thanks for WHAT            01/01/70 00:00      
      No ... You only THINK it has been solved.            01/01/70 00:00      
         question for wire wrapping and some clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
            Rectangular pins that cuts into the wire            01/01/70 00:00      
            If you were to adopt this technique ...            01/01/70 00:00      

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