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???
04/05/09 12:50
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#164351 - My words are that we do not know
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Don't bring in my english in this debate.

- You do bring up the problem with bandwith for 433MHz module.
- I give an example where a similar application can work fine at almost zero bandwidth.
- You note that my example is invalid, since it need not be applicable to the poster (which was my original point, and totally missed)
- I confirm that bandwidth is something for the poster to think about - we do not know what is "enough".
- You return with two incomprehensible sentences:
"You hear what you want to hear : I quoted this [big quote repeated again]"
and
"Do read your comments again ! . And don’t imagine solutions for OP , let him stay within his limits"

I can't see that as a problem on my side. The meaning of my posts should have been quite easy to pick up.

And imagine solutions for the OP - isn't that what we do if we try to help by making suggestions? If I do give a suggestion, I must have somehow imagined that the suggestion may be useful or applicable to the OP. Giving a suggestion I imagine is not useful would be kind of strange, don't you think :)

I give two examples why advanced isn't always better.

One is two different single-seat airplanes designed for high-g turns. The much less advanced stunt planes would still beat a jet fighter trying to do stunts. But lets take it the other way - yes, strip the jet fighter of the long-distance robots and have them do dog-fights. The jet would get into troubles. That was one reason US did originally start the "Top Gun" school. Too many lost jet fighters when they got up against smaller, more agile planes.

You somehow didn't spend time thinking about the possible meaning of the example, since you had already rejected it: "Then you try to teach me like a child ‘that military stuff’ according to your own philosopy which fits you well ". "Military stuff" did not really had an active part in the example - it was just a simple comparison where a $1M solution/plane is better than a $100M solution/plane even in a situation the more expensive/advanced solution/plane was intended to be good at.

The other example was a passenger plane that has huge amounts of automatic systems to be simple to use - at least instrumental landing systems (ILS) but often fully automatic landing systems. A single push-button automatically handling "go-around" in case an approach doesn't feel good. But a way less advanced Piper Cub or similar would still be an easier plane to learn flying with, since the advanced solutions on the passenger plane gets hidden among all the other high-tech stuff. You start to talk about 100+ passengers, totally missing the point. The number of passengers is irrelevant for a student trying to initially learn how to fly. Yes, you can learn directly on passenger planes, thanks to the flight simulators available - needed because the modern passenger plane is more advanced.

Ap said:
Now you state it "The nRF is clearly a more advanced product " isnt ADVANCED product a BETTER .

You must not spend too much time thinking that advanced is always the winning concept. The majority of products you and I will ever buy will be designed with components that have been carefully selected for their cost, and not how advanced they are. The best solution is actually quite seldom the most advanced alternative unless you do target space, military or similar where component cost is normally the smallest factor in the equation.

Ap said:
"What does this means , a Philosophy applies all way round mould it as per your requirements"

Sorry, but you will have to explain that sentence, because I don't understand it. But let me guess an answer:

"Do you have any of your words I wonder?"
"But doesnt have valid arguments ? but thier own hi-tech solutions."

My arguments in this thread (the words you are somehow missing) is that every project has its own requirements. So we can suggest solutions, and we can give arguments why we like them and think that they may be suitable for the OP too. But we can't write the check, giving promises that a solution is the best. Often, the problem debated isn't even relevant, because the OP started the thread from a misconception. To learn radio technology, the Nordic chip may be very nice. To get a good and reliable solution for a single sign, or maybe 20 signs, a commercial box with an antenna connector and a RS232 connector will probably be a way better solution. We can suggest this. And we can ask questions to see if we can narrow down the solutions.

A big problem with this thread is that the OP on one hand is very worried about the costs (discussing individual dollars for a device and the cost of shipping) while at the same time indicating that the device should be used in a product costing huge amounts of money and that you will normally not manage to sell more than a few of unless you already have very good contacts.

And we do not know bandwidth requirements, or communication range, or national requirements, ...

List of 91 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Is there an IC for RF tranceiver?            01/01/70 00:00      
   I am sure there is - but            01/01/70 00:00      
      Its no trouble, he can just get one made for him            01/01/70 00:00      
         :)            01/01/70 00:00      
   sample circuits with 8051            01/01/70 00:00      
      Modules are expensive            01/01/70 00:00      
         Some modules are not so expensive            01/01/70 00:00      
   Have a look at these ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      There are available modules here            01/01/70 00:00      
          1/3 of the price of the device , how many you require?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Why being afraid? You have the people...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Economies of scale            01/01/70 00:00      
         The first one will cost about half a million $US            01/01/70 00:00      
            Those Taiwanese 433 MHz modules            01/01/70 00:00      
               support            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Why?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     How do you test it?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Do they offer sample            01/01/70 00:00      
      There are similar rf modules here            01/01/70 00:00      
         RF is never that simple!            01/01/70 00:00      
         Nordic Transceiver was far better            01/01/70 00:00      
            It's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?            01/01/70 00:00      
               I think it actually lies in the holder            01/01/70 00:00      
                  No such thing as "better"            01/01/70 00:00      
                     O really            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Why always pick fights?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Who piks it            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Impatient            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Better is also not a Toy solution            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    You are still focusing on a single track            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       No single track            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          OP's requirements not always identical to yours            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             No requirements were suggested to him            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Richard is correct            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   I feel your English is direct translation of your            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      My words are that we do not know            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         My words ..            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Still a bit quick            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               Quick ?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  upload and upload            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Is this the one Per            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Richard is correct            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      how does it feel            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         how does it feel .... great            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            in the eye of the beholder            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               beholders eye            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            hi-tech solutions?!            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                               let me break my fast this time            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                  Comparative analysis            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     Cost            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        Straining at gnats            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                     It looks fiction            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                        dismissive            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                           Dont call it dismiss but preference            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                              knowing what the OP is trying to do            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                 Just give it a look (Modified)            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    No club            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                    nRF24L01            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                       one point missed            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                          That's a different chip?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                                                             Some people jump into the middle of threads            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    what does 'big' mean            01/01/70 00:00      
                        let's not waste our time            01/01/70 00:00      
                        We appear to be stuck at that language barrier again            01/01/70 00:00      
                     best ----            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Engineering is always about compromise            01/01/70 00:00      
   nRF24L01 with SPI only            01/01/70 00:00      
      and so are the old ones            01/01/70 00:00      
      what is spi?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Why not ask the vendor?            01/01/70 00:00      
         what is spi? here            01/01/70 00:00      
            futile            01/01/70 00:00      
               I am planning to use it to control led matrix display            01/01/70 00:00      
                  ... and 100 uA is enough to drive them?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     2kV            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Please be more particular regarding RF link needs            01/01/70 00:00      
                  And you're worrying about a few $ for the RF module?!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Doesn't this whole tale smell like fiction?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Library decision: SF or Fantasy?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Delusion            01/01/70 00:00      
                              i am starting 0 knowledge again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Now that is believable!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  a VERY ambitious newbie            01/01/70 00:00      
                     The electricity bills will be cheaper            01/01/70 00:00      
                        :)            01/01/70 00:00      
   TDA5200            01/01/70 00:00      
   Xbee might be the answer            01/01/70 00:00      
      but what is the question?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Cross-references            01/01/70 00:00      

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