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???
03/18/10 13:50
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#174272 - SPI solves completely different problem than HDLC
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Andy Peters said:
I dunno, it seems as if there's a ton of devices that communicate over SPI, which is a synchronous protocol and in many cases goes pretty damn fast.


Just a bit of comments here.

HDLC sounds ancient. Sounds like those big modems used on leased lines by newspapers when they sent facsimiles of their pages between each other or for printing.

SPI is fast multi-signal solution for short-distance communication. Without special encoding of the data, you need a slave-select signal to allow the signal to synchronize with the transfer. Or you need to regularly insert pauses in the clock output so the slave can notice the pause in received data and reset the bit counter to zero.

HDLC is a fast single-signal solution for short- or long-distnce communication.

HDLC does not send a byte of data as-is, but is expanding the bit pattern into a longer bit pattern. This means that there are reserved bit patterns that can not exist in the data transfer. On one hand, it makes sure that you don't get too long runs of zeroes or ones after each other, to make sure that the listener regularly sees transitions and can synchronize the baudrate. On the other hand, the receiver can be put in hunt mode, and start receiving data when it sees the flag sequence representing the lead-in, so in a conintinuous stream with zero breaks, a listener can find a synchronization point and know that it isn't one or multiple bits off or just random matching data in the middle of a message.

Depending on electrical interface and configuration, it is also possible to use dominant bit states so multiple transmitters may start sending data at almost the same time, and the dominant data will win while the other transmitters will catch the collision and stop the transmission and restart later.

Running really high link speeds (such as gbit Ethernet) obviously means that it makes a difference to have crc evaluations in hardware instead of doing it by the controlling processor.

Another thing - toggling a single signal once/bit is easier than running SPI and having the clock signal toggle two times/bit.

So HDLC - or very similar concepts - may be found in ethernet, CAN, data streams in disk controllers, any many, many, many other applications. It is very applicable today, even if most newer hardware may integrate multiple layers and shield the developer from the actual HDLC layer.

Close relatives - often just configuration settings different from "normal" HDLC - includes data link control for AppleTalk, SS7 etc.

So in the end - SPI is good for local communication on a PCB, and with zero errors on the link. For longer distances, with need for error detection and recovery, HDLC is definitely a better choice.

List of 83 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
ready made board with 2 UARTs equipped ..            01/01/70 00:00      
   Send me details            01/01/70 00:00      
   SiLabs kit            01/01/70 00:00      
      they don't, but            01/01/70 00:00      
   Can you give more details ?            01/01/70 00:00      
      if it was to be made, I need no assistance since ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         ...and I thought Price was the issue...            01/01/70 00:00      
   One Suggestion            01/01/70 00:00      
      the MX chips are being phased out            01/01/70 00:00      
   I sent you email            01/01/70 00:00      
      read, answered, thanks            01/01/70 00:00      
   you can use sm5964            01/01/70 00:00      
      the idea was stated as...            01/01/70 00:00      
         It is a suggestion            01/01/70 00:00      
            Not a good idea            01/01/70 00:00      
            that it is            01/01/70 00:00      
   How about Phycore?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Legacy Product            01/01/70 00:00      
         oh, yes            01/01/70 00:00      
            Have a look at grifo            01/01/70 00:00      
   This looks good too            01/01/70 00:00      
   I've been wondering ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Likewise            01/01/70 00:00      
         Maybe, but who makes 'em?            01/01/70 00:00      
            8052 with only 1 UART            01/01/70 00:00      
               I'm surprised, but that's the case!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  why surprised?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     That's what I thought            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I never thought of it in those terms ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        comments            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It could be done with two wires and 2-UART MCU            01/01/70 00:00      
      120 devboards ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         How difficult or costly would it be to add one?            01/01/70 00:00      
            neither difficult nor costly            01/01/70 00:00      
         SILABs 040 has 2 uarts on it            01/01/70 00:00      
   with ds89c450 or 430            01/01/70 00:00      
      But that's a chip - not a board!            01/01/70 00:00      
         cheap boards            01/01/70 00:00      
            this is what's meant            01/01/70 00:00      
               No RS485            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Example            01/01/70 00:00      
                     bad example            01/01/70 00:00      
                        No - excellent example!            01/01/70 00:00      
                           likewise with that other board ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           And did *you* know what are you looking for?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              You got it            01/01/70 00:00      
                  why "never"?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     the PC's not the best example ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        PC as an example            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Lots of toys ... little of any practical use.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Different tools can be used in different ways            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 where is your head wedged?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Don't blame the PC for solving wrong things with USB            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       There are many things for which USB is unsuited            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Every change since 1980 isn't for the worse            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             Maybe, but this one is            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   Thta's what you say ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      that's what you always say            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         Where you sit determines what you see            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            Where did you sit?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   SPI solves completely different problem than HDLC            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                and again            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   what about the required size of the driver?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      required size of driver            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                         What do you mean by PCL Cost?            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                            price difference between similar printers -            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                Define narrow view - I see oportunities, i.e. the reverse            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                   not relevant            01/01/70 00:00      
                                                      So the Windows driver didn't list 8051 compatibility???            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          I vote Richard as president for ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             That's what one would expect from you, Erik            01/01/70 00:00      
                              USB and fixed-rate transfer            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Fortunately, there's DOS ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Linux - I thought as much            01/01/70 00:00      
                        PCs            01/01/70 00:00      
                           you forgot about LINUX            01/01/70 00:00      
   By this time, anybody could have built one...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Funnily enough, ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      no            01/01/70 00:00      
   I Hate to ask this....            01/01/70 00:00      
      A *very* common requirement!            01/01/70 00:00      
      if indeed            01/01/70 00:00      

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