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???
12/07/11 15:27
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#185027 - Yes A1 to ++V
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Stefan Kanev said:
as in figure. Trigger current will flow from A1 trough Gate into TL431.
I do not see current limitation in this path and i'm puzzled with this.


You are right. A triac can be used in the described circuit with the A1 terminal to ++V rail. It works specifically because the device is a four quadrant device and will trigger with current coming out of the gate terminal.

As a matter of fact I see now that this is actually the way the circuit is meant to work. I made a mistake in my quick evaluation. The TLV431 will be OFF with no cathode current when the input side resistor divider (variable resistor in series with fixed resistor to GND) is set such that the ref input is below 1.24 volts. This would keep the triac OFF as long as the A1 terminal was at the V+ rail. As the rail voltage rises (or the variable resistor is made to a lower ohms setting) eventually the TLV431 ref input will get up to 1.24 volts. This will cause the TLV431 to suddenly turn on and conduct cathode current to GND. This will cause the triac to turn on hard as long as the ++V rail is at least 1.24 volts plus the trigger threshold voltage for the triac.

So the conclusion is that this combination of the shunt reference and the triac is a clever way to make a crowbar circuit. The TLV431 provides plenty of gain to make the switch point of the triac be a well defined snap point and not a soft sloppy soft turn on. This actually has some advantages as I see it over the zener diode / SCR circuit shown here by someone else which has way less gain and will end up having a soft knee turn on.

Michael Karas


List of 40 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Crowbar circuit using TL431            01/01/70 00:00      
   possibly worthless circuit            01/01/70 00:00      
      Speed not a problem            01/01/70 00:00      
         maybe it is            01/01/70 00:00      
      re: possibly worthless            01/01/70 00:00      
         no, the fuse blew            01/01/70 00:00      
            Polyfuse - OMG            01/01/70 00:00      
               And manufacturing tolerances can ruin the design...            01/01/70 00:00      
   Why not using...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Like shown here, e.g.,...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Possible but..            01/01/70 00:00      
            Tell us...            01/01/70 00:00      
   describe application, and needs            01/01/70 00:00      
      language            01/01/70 00:00      
         sorry            01/01/70 00:00      
            Awesome...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Antique...            01/01/70 00:00      
            The classic approach doesn't use a triac            01/01/70 00:00      
               did not think opf that.            01/01/70 00:00      
         Oh, come on, Erik ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            I do not critisize language problems...            01/01/70 00:00      
               It's a matter of personal pride ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      More info            01/01/70 00:00      
         and values of resistors?            01/01/70 00:00      
            Component values            01/01/70 00:00      
               oscillations?            01/01/70 00:00      
         one alternative circuit            01/01/70 00:00      
   a couple of questions ...            01/01/70 00:00      
   This one's straight from "often-wrong" Wikipedia            01/01/70 00:00      
   Thread wandering            01/01/70 00:00      
      then close it..            01/01/70 00:00      
         Problem now fixed            01/01/70 00:00      
            Are you sure??            01/01/70 00:00      
               Exactly the opposite            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Triac Triggering            01/01/70 00:00      
                     A1 to positive rail is ok            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Yes A1 to ++V            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Nevertheless...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Not Necessarily            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Standard for PC PSU            01/01/70 00:00      

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