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???
11/12/11 12:25
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Msg Score: +2
 +2 Good Answer/Helpful
#184674 - What situation would that be?
Responding to: ???'s previous message
But note that the original EPROM chips did not support electrical erase. And applying UV light meant bulk erase.

So the use of a single external EPROM would not allow the lower part of that EPROM to contain a loader handling any serial port and then have that loader receive more program to burn into upper parts of the EPROM - especially since the EPROM would not run the processor while being programmed.

Even most flash chips have the limitation that they can't serve out code while having other flash sectors being erased/reprogrammed.

So the simplest solution would be to have two memory chips. One EPROM or flash chip with a boot loader. But how (?) would that program get a boot loader when there are no stand-alone programmer available to program it?

The second memory could be a RAM or a flash, and could get the contents by the boot loader program.

But no - there would not be anything simple about the above. So we would be back to my original post.

Yes - a programmer can be written. Yes, the processor can be used. But it would cost. It would take time. And it would probably not work because it would require too many individual steps to be correct. And someone who starts from scratch would not have the equipment and experience to figure out all the broken steps until the design finally started to work.

A fraction of that time and a fraction of the cost, could be used to buy a development board with a modern processor with a RS-232 or USB interface where a PC program could send a new program. And with a modern processor that would have internal, hardware, support for debugging of the downloaded program.

Going the new route, would mean lots of time available to learn new skills on a working platform.
Going the old route would give lots of experiences that may not be wanted at this time. Like 100 different things that can go wrong ending a project in failure.

That's what I'd use in this sort of situation.

And what situation would that be? You starting from scratch, without any existing software? No existing hardware but a dumb processor and one or more UV-erasable EPROM chips but without any UV eraser? No tools to fill that EPROM with contents? No tools to drive raw processor pins to use as a building block for a programmer? No tool capable of receiving RS-232 data from a PC to send into latches to then (together with pulsing of address counters) program the EPROM?

Anyone who gets to this forum with the question the OP had, would be in a position where it doesn't matter what "can" be done. The important thing is that with lacking tools and lacking experience, lots of things that can be done just shouldn't be attempted. Becaus the cost would be too high. Because the failure probability would be too high. Just because other - very cheap - alternatives would allow much more learning in way shorter time.

If you have a $300 old car, it isn't meaningful to invest $3000 to try to get it to run a bit better.

If you have the skills and a truly unique wreck, it might be meaningful to invest $30,000 instead. Just because you will be able to create a museum-class vehicle in mint condition.

This is not a thread where an experienced developer is trying to recreate an important historical artifact, but someone who have a "wreck" on his hands and isn't realizing that the cost it would take to make it usable is higher than the cost of buying a new SDK complete with documentation.

List of 76 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
How to write programs to internal memory with RS232???            01/01/70 00:00      
   What processor            01/01/70 00:00      
      And the winner is...            01/01/70 00:00      
         fuggetabutit            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hmmmmmm            01/01/70 00:00      
               sure there is            01/01/70 00:00      
               Costly failure            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Well, the UV thing confuses me...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     well, then ....            01/01/70 00:00      
                     OTP or mask-programmed            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Isn't that a clue?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Wrong! It won't work with THIS part!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     8032            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Actually ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           What situation would that be?            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I think you're confusing two different parts.            01/01/70 00:00      
                           There's the thing!            01/01/70 00:00      
                              It all depends on what you mean by experienced.            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 RE: It all depends on what you mean by, "experienced"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    "Level" is such a relative term            01/01/70 00:00      
                              That's the reason            01/01/70 00:00      
                        8032?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Yes - but is it worth it?            01/01/70 00:00      
                           It's a long, circuitous path ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I have an external UV EPROM            01/01/70 00:00      
                        If you don't know that, ...            01/01/70 00:00      
         Unless you have specific interest in vintage electronics ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            So...I've made a decision..sorta            01/01/70 00:00      
               One step at a time            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Any specific one though?            01/01/70 00:00      
                     This one?            01/01/70 00:00      
         Not this one!            01/01/70 00:00      
            Hmmm, a goal?            01/01/70 00:00      
               Wrong road!            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Regarding knowledge of electronics.            01/01/70 00:00      
                     RE: "fourth grade"            01/01/70 00:00      
                        RE:RE:Fourth grade            01/01/70 00:00      
               if the "self taught home-school class" refer to the archaric            01/01/70 00:00      
                  When throwing out bathwater, take care to retain baby...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     out of sheer nostalgia            01/01/70 00:00      
                     It might, in fact, be a good thing to go back farther            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Interesting            01/01/70 00:00      
                           You need to know much more about two things ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  About other processors            01/01/70 00:00      
                     The prices were on the page!            01/01/70 00:00      
                     SiLabs Boards            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Integrated            01/01/70 00:00      
                     here            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Code flash not always able to replace EEPROM            01/01/70 00:00      
                           agreed            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes            01/01/70 00:00      
               Maybe a heretic idea...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  There's a problem with these ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Not for the intended purpose....            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Single source            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Just another chance.....            01/01/70 00:00      
                        If you read his entire post ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           I have six other microprocessors that i found yesterday            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Well, this is not the PIC forum ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I was just saying...            01/01/70 00:00      
                              'found'stuff            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 I have to agree, conditionally            01/01/70 00:00      
                           learning about microcontrollers            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Arduino is a very good choice if not going 8051 route            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Careful, now ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     spend some $$$ on an already-assembled product            01/01/70 00:00      
                        in for a penny, in for a pound ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Still easier to learn to program before bringing up first hw            01/01/70 00:00      
                              I'm not so sure ... maybe we'll just have to disagree            01/01/70 00:00      
               If you're really serious about this ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  tools and such            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Well ... maybe your Dad can fill you in on some details            01/01/70 00:00      
         re: 8052            01/01/70 00:00      
            Switched            01/01/70 00:00      
            no offense, but that's incorrect.            01/01/70 00:00      

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