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???
09/12/11 23:23
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#183740 - Supported capacitance seems to be the snag
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Yet another interesting chip.

Very hard to tell about it from just the datasheet. It has a output acceleration feature to give more current umpfh when it detects a level change, but from a quick browse I don't see they have enough info to really tell how much current or charge that acceleration feature gives, or if it is active until a certain voltage level is reached.

The bad part is that the 4Mbit/s variant does not show so very high capacitances in the diagram, and the 20Mbit/s chip shows support for even less capacitance.

I think standard ribbon cable is somewhere around 20pf/foot or 70pf/meter, so it will be the current drive that will be the limiting factor. But definitely worth getting samples of to evaluate.

The booster feature for level changes is a nice feature since it allows quicker toggling without increasing the amount of current when two outputs are fighting until the chip detects and toggles logic level. The NXP chip did explicitly claim to have a weak output drive to be easy to overrride by another output, but I did not see anything about any boost feature was available to speed up a state change.

If nothing else, this thread ends up with a nice list of interesting leven-conversion alternatives.

It would be truly marvelous if there existed any auto-detect buffer capable of the task.

Individual control? If the data signals can't auto-detect the required data direction, then I would need a chip that is programmable, so I can order it to set D0A as input, D1A, D2A as output, D3A as input, D4A, ... depending on configured peripherial. Having the data direction programmable means a buffer can have strong drive continuously since someone have told the chip that there will be no collision. These auto-detect chips are weaker so a "normal" output will be powerful enough to overrrule the state. Excellent for level conversions locally on a PCB, but unless the boost feature is good enough, it might not be possible for use with ribbon cables.

Anyway - I'll have some datasheets to read through tomorrow

Using microcontrollers as smart buffers would probably be outside the scope because of the need for data in both directions - they would have to run at a serious pace to pick up 8 bits from one port, perform a mapping and masking and emit on other port and then do the same thing in reverse. And guarantee a maximum delay before the master processor tries to pick up the input data and sends out next output data.

A different solution to the problem might be to waste 70+70 pins on the main processor (just within reach in pin count and speed capacity) or FPGA. Let it listen on all signals, while having 70 buffered output channels with individual output enable control. Alas, that is a solution with just as many problems to solve. Just different problems.

List of 40 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
Bit-configurable transceiver chips            01/01/70 00:00      
   Suggesting....again...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Alas 5V needed and ribbon cables are a bit "rough"            01/01/70 00:00      
   Another Suggestion....            01/01/70 00:00      
   level translator            01/01/70 00:00      
      Alas, "weak output drive" and no input hysterese            01/01/70 00:00      
      TI sn74gtl2010            01/01/70 00:00      
         or NXP GTL2010,GTL2000            01/01/70 00:00      
            looks promising            01/01/70 00:00      
            NXP GTL20xx -> NVT20xx            01/01/70 00:00      
         Need to read more to understand them            01/01/70 00:00      
            looks like the cat's miauw            01/01/70 00:00      
   NXP has ....            01/01/70 00:00      
      I2C or SPI just can't get even close to the huge bandwidth            01/01/70 00:00      
         nope, no I²C clocks            01/01/70 00:00      
            extender, not expander            01/01/70 00:00      
   I have been wondering this myself            01/01/70 00:00      
      Supported capacitance seems to be the snag            01/01/70 00:00      
   Differential SPI            01/01/70 00:00      
      Serial -> buffers on adapter boards is a potential solution            01/01/70 00:00      
   Have you considered programmable logic?            01/01/70 00:00      
      I had suggested this as well            01/01/70 00:00      
         Yes ... I remember that ...            01/01/70 00:00      
            Long life            01/01/70 00:00      
               They seem to live a long time ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Adapters            01/01/70 00:00      
                     These aren't necessarily so "huge"            01/01/70 00:00      
                        Not huge in size            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Some of them can handle that.            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Yes and no            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 There are ways ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                    Body diodes            01/01/70 00:00      
                                       serial termination ...            01/01/70 00:00      
                                          Yes, current- and bandwidth-limiting components used            01/01/70 00:00      
                                             you youing whippersnappers, pay attention            01/01/70 00:00      
            pedantry, again            01/01/70 00:00      
               What would YOU suggest?            01/01/70 00:00      
   Here's a thought ...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Probably            01/01/70 00:00      
         I'd sugest you consider older CPLD's            01/01/70 00:00      

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