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???
09/11/07 20:16
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Msg Score: +1
 +1 Good Answer/Helpful
#144397 - but it's a 51 on steroids!... and some philosophy
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Well, I wouldn't call a 75MHz 4-clocker with 16MB address space for both code and data, with a fat (and this is not acronym for "file allocation table") set of tools and utilities built-in in ROM, a microcontroller (although on the other hand, I doubt the term macrocontroller would gain significant popularity... :-) ) The OP might be confused by calling this an 8051. It relates to the 8051 similarly as the governor of California relates to me.

But this is not the point.

The point is the misconception of the "power tools".

We see it here often - I am IN NEED of floating point operations. Why? Because I need to calculate sin or log. (Let's just not question whether sin or log is REALLY needed for now - although the reader already knows that often even this is not needed to fulfill the given task). The novice is told in the school one single power tool - floating point arithmetics. Sure, even a two-byte addition can be performed using FP, so it IS universal; but the reader here is certainly aware of the immense cost of this universality.

Similarly, I often see, I need to implement TCP/IP, so I NEED multitasking. Of course this is not true. For a web-(http-)thermometer, or an ethernet-watchdog, single task implementation of the stack (or, not even a stack-approach) is appropriate. For a complex application, which has to serve multiple connections at the same time, or has to support e.g. file transfer (e.g. log files download) while an time-intensive application is running, a well-though-off multitasking (a.k.a.RT) OS is fully appropriate.

But, don't get me wrong, I am not THAT stupid. If the question is only to reach out and use a power tool, maybe in the name of "programmer's time efficiency", perhaps also with being aware of its cost (in each meaning), let it be. Also, those users are often aware of the alternative ("real") solutions so they can resort to them if they find the cost etc. constraining.

But then, those users won't come here asking, will they. No, the question is usually, "I need floating point/multitasking, but I don't know how to do it". Then, I think, it is time to tell to these users, that there is world beyond the power tools...

Sorry for the lengthy and slightly OT post.

JW



List of 44 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
ABOUT THE REAL TIME OS            01/01/70 00:00      
   Do you really need it?            01/01/70 00:00      
      Seconds thoughts            01/01/70 00:00      
         but it's a 51 on steroids!... and some philosophy            01/01/70 00:00      
            Definitions            01/01/70 00:00      
               I use the p89c51rd2            01/01/70 00:00      
               It is the architecture            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Mutlitasking on the OS            01/01/70 00:00      
                     I think I said something similar...            01/01/70 00:00      
                     please tell which            01/01/70 00:00      
                        extended stack in SRAM            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Stack expanded to MOVX            01/01/70 00:00      
                  another architecture shortcoming            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Independent of multitasking?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        HUH??            01/01/70 00:00      
                           Clarification            01/01/70 00:00      
                              Identity crisis            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Oops            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 No crisis here            01/01/70 00:00      
                           My question clarified            01/01/70 00:00      
                              "stack inefficiency"            01/01/70 00:00      
                                 Stack            01/01/70 00:00      
               I disagree somewhat            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Multitasking            01/01/70 00:00      
   I think I need it!            01/01/70 00:00      
      no, you do not            01/01/70 00:00      
         I have made a PLC complier for MCS-51 by VB.            01/01/70 00:00      
            Multi-use timers            01/01/70 00:00      
               Could you help me?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  No            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Software timers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Linked Lists            01/01/70 00:00      
                     Linked Lists for Software Timers            01/01/70 00:00      
               I do not know how to do?            01/01/70 00:00      
                  Use software timers            01/01/70 00:00      
                     how to use it point to task.            01/01/70 00:00      
                        what is "a task" in your application?            01/01/70 00:00      
                        What task??            01/01/70 00:00      
                  stop running            01/01/70 00:00      
      Unlilely            01/01/70 00:00      
   DS89C450 can handle the RTOS?            01/01/70 00:00      
      PLCs            01/01/70 00:00      
         Russell got it            01/01/70 00:00      
         Thanks russell!            01/01/70 00:00      

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