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???
03/22/07 06:51
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  03/22/07 06:53

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#135558 - Depends on the scope of the work...
Responding to: ???'s previous message
Dave Brooks said:
Anybody out there using a DPO41xx scope? I'm evaluating one, and it's got everything you might expect from a Tek digital o'scope, with the addition of bus analysis...

First a disclaimer: I haven't used it. I've seen other scopes with similar functionality though.

This is cool for not only capturing the serial info, but displaying it in either binary or hex on the screen...Way cool!

It also has a 10" diag screen...

Anybody using something else for analyzing the bus info?

Serial analysis plugins are showing up on scopes everywhere these days. I briefly surveyed the market last year, and also had a demonstration from a vendor. This sort of functionality has a lot of "wow" factor, and given access to a scope with such a feature, I'd use it regularly.

The thing is that scopes are generally intended for short term, timing mode analysis (e.g., sampling according to a scope-internal clock set at the start of the measurement) of AC waveforms. Having a serial bus decoder plugin doesn't change that much. Chances are, you'll still be wasting most of your sampling memory on artifacts that aren't terribly important for a strictly digital analysis of the serial data, and you'll be left without any really interesting triggering capabilities.

So, why use a scope for a serial bus? Because you're interested in measuring specific analog aspects of the bus signalling, like rise/fall time, clock duty cycle, steady state logic levels, checking for glitches, or something like that. For this kind of work, a scope cannot be replaced. Incidentally, a serial bus decoder plugin is by no means necessary for this sort of thing, but if it's there, it can certainly speed up the work a bit.

I'm suppose to decide by Friday if this is the way we want to go... it costs a lot, unfortunately...

-db

Jez Smith said:
I tend to use a logic analyser for serious bus work because you can set it up with the multiple channels and set things like pattern matching triggers and pretriggering and so on,however if you want a general purpose tool that can do bus stuff and capture other signals then the Tek is a good device.

I agree with Jez' comment completely, assuming that by "serious bus work" he means "analysis of the digital data transferred over the bus", which is in sharp contrast to analyzing "analog aspects of the bus signalling", as I discussed earlier.

The bottom line is that a logic analyzer is not just a scope with 1-bit ADCs and a lot of channels. In reality, it's really quite a lot more than that. It is the foundation for an incredibly powerful protocol analysis system. Between the advanced triggering, the ability to sample based on clocking from the device under test, and very deep sample memories, it is possible to capture notable amounts of serial bus traffic and examine it for errors at the driver or application level.

As a more concrete example of what can be done with a logic analyzer, I recently captured 7 second snippets of audio from 6 PCM (e.g., I2S-like) channels, and an I2C control channel simultaneously. After a bit of post-processing, the result was a set of 6 time-syncrhonized .WAV audio files and a listing of I2C transactions, which were also timestamped and synchronized to the audio files. The insight these results provided into a suite of complex problems was absolutely invaluable, and capabilities like this are essential on just about any high-complexity embedded system project. Show me a scope that can do this, and you might convince me I don't need a logic analyzer. But in the meanwhile, I'll take both, regardless of whether the scope has a serial bus analysis feature.

--Sasha Jevtic

List of 7 messages in thread
TopicAuthorDate
SPI and the DPO4104scope...            01/01/70 00:00      
   For bus work            01/01/70 00:00      
   maybe, maybe not            01/01/70 00:00      
   Depends on the scope of the work...            01/01/70 00:00      
      Thanks for the input...            01/01/70 00:00      
         we had a tektronix 3000 denmonstrated            01/01/70 00:00      
   For the same money you can get            01/01/70 00:00      

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